Yeah, your right, I forgot the M after the 16, and it is .509, not .500. I stand corrected. Thank you. But I stand by my statement, there aren`t many horns with a bore size smaller than that. But, like I said, there are a few...

Hey does any one here know if a Maestro. B45 Trombone is good or bad. I only played Trombone for aboue a year but I have gottin pretty good at it. I love to play "Pretty Fly" The most.

NO!!!!

Don`t get a Maestro. They are some of the worst trombones ever created. They are made in China as knockoffs of American brands, but they are made so cheaply and in such mass quantities, they hardly work at all.

I had a friend in college that bought one. When she got it in the mail, it had to go directly to the shop. The inner slide was too large, and the slide didn`t move. The trigger was offset, so she couldn`t get her thumb up into it to press it. The tuning slide wouldn`t stay in place.

Do whatever you can to stay away from ANYTHING made in China. They aren`t worth even the outrageously cheap prices they are asking for them. A $200 - $500 trombone isn`t worth the frustration of playing a horn that doesn`t work, and when it does (post-shop time) it`s not in tune, sounds like crap, and doesn`t last.

have you heard the rumor that Back is moving to China since the government is rasing all our taxes and such? i`ve heard of it but im not sure if its true or not.

My brother is an intermediate in Jazz Band, and he wants the King 2B very desperately. I`ve seen it and it is very beautiful. I heard the new ones are lookin good too and also an alternative is the Yamaha ProModels. Personally I think that Trombones are ugly and dumb unless a good player is on it. I`m more of a woodwind type.

ACTUALLY, there is ALSO spit in the mixture. your lips buzz and some spit gets by. For your son, a 2B is deffinatly to advanced for him. I would recomment a bach straight horn, or a 42B(O). the 42 might be a bit much for him now, but it is a all aroudn horn and would give him something to grow into.
Luke

for Christ`s sake:

King 2b is a jazz horn. Great for lead and solo work with great projection and easy high range.

Bach 42b and Conn 88H are big symphonic horns for when you need a big sound and when 3 trombones need to have the volume to stand up to a hundred strings and still sound musical.

No amount of "growing into" a 42b or 88H is going to make it a jazz horn.

In-between horns like the 3b, 3b+, Bach 36 and similar horns are between these extremes. When I was in high school my teacher knowing I would have one horn recommended a 3b with F attachment as a do-it-all horn. I played lead trombone in both jazz ensemble and concert band and I sounded good in both capacities.

The 3b is a nice horn. A high schooler who wants to play both jazz and legit is well served by it. In college I ended up having to get an 88H for legit because the 3b just wasn`t cutting it any more. One drawback of the 3b with an F attachemnt for jazz was when I was the only person with an F attachment I got to play bass trombone parts and while I could hit the notes they sounded like crap compared to how they would sound on a true base trombone. When the conductor would stop the band and ask why I sounded so bad I had to give him the whole story. I`ve been trying to trade my 3b with F attachment for a good 2b for a while but I haven`t found any takers.

If the kid mainly wants to play jazz a good 2b is the best horn. Some people who had to suffer for years on a cheap horn before moving up to a pro model may be offended that someone else gets a pro horn earlier but they just need to get over it. A 3b or 36 is more versatile but if the kid only cares about jazz than he has the right horn.

bruce, i sense some frustration in you, and I can sympathize.
there are some that are starting to go to bigger horns in jazz, (the entire Dave Holland Big Band bone section, for example). Robin Eubanks and Josh Roseman get some incredible sounds. But they are certainly the exception, not the rule.
as for the King sucks, conn sucks, bach sucks... please, people!
in my locker at work. i have
a bach 42, a conn 88H, a bach 16M, a yamaha 646 (.525bore straight) and a King 3B with a sterling silver bell.
they are all good horns. each with its own unique characteristics. i have played crappy bachs, some conns that didn`t play so well, and some kings that I didn`t like so much. I have played yamahas that are painfully sharp in the upper register. so the blanket statements about who makes the better horns are just uninformed and unfair.
Rich, I`m glad your son got that 2B.. i just hope he takes care of it. sounds like it is really fitting his needs
when it all comes down to it, there really is no one miracle horn that does all jobs equally well. i wouldn`t play lead in our big band with an 88H, nor would I bring my 3B to a concert band rehearsal. in other words.. GET THE RIGHT TOOL FOR THE JOB FOLKS!!!