ummm...yeah... there is really no point in using "LMAO" or LOL or whatever other useless words that seem to have slipped into this guy`s brain.....like how he uses LMAOm after people insult him... I mean WTF!?!(that is an actual proper use)

If your a doctor im an astronaut!LMAO
and if you really are a doctor - WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING ON HERE??LMAO!!!!!
I like to play my Fretted Acoustic Violin in space!lmao
you cant hear anything but you can feel the vibration!
ak50324:
"like how he uses LMAO after people insult him"

If you had the maturity or ability to see how ridiculous these posts are you would laugh your ass off the whole time you were reading them aswell!lmao!

ive got a sneaky suspicion im talking to a group of 14 year olds who wanna look like intelligent adults!lmao
when you become one (an im sure you will) - I think you might find yourself alittle let down!

play nice children!lmao

sanzen is a dumb ass. i bet hes never played on a strad AND a guarneri de gesu on the same day ON TV. pshh people like him need to stop humiliating REAL musicians. and dont bother replying to this sanzen, cuz i wont be comming back here to read your whining horsesh*t.

-a Juilliard alumni

I have played on a strad AND a guarneri de gesu on the same day ON TV actually, while balancing on a 6ft long tooth pick infront of the queen and the president of the united states of america!LMAO

humiliating REAL musicians?lol
where are they? do they come in here?

One day they will genetically modify fish to leap into your pan. In the meantime, this is almost as good.!

ANYWAY....

I remember this guy named Mark Wood. When he was young, his dad got him into Classical music, so he learned to play the cello, viola, and violin. Mark`s dad also built violins for a living, so Mark had to learn how. Soon, he got into Rock music and the guitar. A few years later of playing the guitar and the violin, he soon wanted to create a violin/guitar thing.

He invented/created a Flying V Guitar that could prop onto your shoulder, a heavy duty bridge so it could absorb the impact at what he was playing at, and frets (or none if you don`t want any) on the fingerboard/neck. It also comes with a shoulder rest, or a strap (like what guitarists have when they play standing up).

Just search Mark Wood on Google and you`ll find plenty of websites advertising electric violins, violas and cellos.

I think a modern violin with frets would be an interesting instrument (the viol for the 21st century!) However, it will NOT be a violin. Learning to play the violin properly is all about muscle memory. Notice that when you play the guitar, there is a huge margin of error for finger placement that allows the correct note to sound. If you learn to play on a fretted violin, you will not be learning the proper finger positions. Nor will you be learning how to finger-drop properly. You will NOT be able to play a traditional violin.

So, if you want to learn the violin, don`t put frets on it. If you want a fretted violin, put frets on one, give it a new name, and learn to play that! I`m sure that it will offer its own world of unique musical expression.

"...would be an interesting instrument"?? "..will NOT be a violin"?? Why are you speaking in the future tense?
Frets have already been put into violins (I`m sorry to break the news but they still call them violins).
I`m a guitarist and, no.. there isn`t a "huge margin of error for finger placement". It`s at most .3" at the lower frets, non-existent in the higher ones.
No, you won`t be learning traditional violin but you`ll still be learning violin. Check out the wikipedia entry on violins. They don`t mention frets till, what, the eighth paragraph?

A horse is a horse. A violin is a violin, fretted or not.

Frets on a violin. Not a violin. A fretted violin.

If you day "violin" it has no frets.

You *must* specify. See ISO standard EU-547-1-m.

I just ran across this forum today, and this discussion. I find the idea of a fretted violin pretty interesting, and there have been fretted violins made in the past. There are even new makers making them, though mostly electric (and slightly tacky looking, from what I have seen).

Anyway, to fret one, use that to learn, I can see where that might work. In fact, if you were worried about the frets causing you to not play in tune on a non fretted one, couldn't you just detune the violin somewhat, and place frets so that the empty space between them would be where you would actually hit if it were in tune and fretless?

It might be interesting to figure out some sort of way to put temp frets on a violin without damaging the fingerboard, and see what happens.

Incidentally, I just ran across this product....I don't know how well it works, but it is certainly interesting:

http://www.frettedfiddle.com/

people come and go in this forum but sanzenkoan is always here to bash everyones ear. now tell me, whos the one without the life?

I am a professional musician and music teacher. I play violin and also fretted violin. Fretted violins have been around since the early 1800's. They put the frets on so that women could place the instrument on a table or their lap. They were called bowed zithers and came in all kinds of shapes - some of which are just violins with frets.

The frets can help someone learn to play faster and can assist with learning bowing techniques as you don't need to pay as much attention to your fret fingers. You do have to do a lot of work to learn to play in tune on a fretless real violin but by then you have some finger control and the bowing down.

"The guitar is an even-tempered instrument, like the piano. But the violin is not."

That's exactly what I think. Violinists would have some limitations if they had frets (real frets) on their instrument. Especially when doing double strings, etc. Apart from that, the position changes and glissandi would be more difficult and would sound different, as it has already been mentioned. The vibrato too, I think, would be conditioned (which would be no fun!).

I stand with those people who have called a violin a violin and a fretted violin a fretted violin. The instrument somewhat loses its authenticity when making changes to it; moreover, this one change we're talking about alters precisely one of the main characteristics of the violin. What makes it special, so to say.

I have no more talent than the rest of you. I began when I was 15 and now I've been a year and a half playing. I used no frets, no tape, no grooves, not even marks with a pencil, and I've had no problems whatsoever with anything. I think it's good, from the beginning, to get used to what you will need to play the instrument properly, but this is an opinion. It certainly has done me good in all the other things I've attempted (and not just music). A bit like starting the flute with open holes. Maybe progress is slightly slower at the start, but on the long run (and not so long, either) it does a person more good than damage. So I agree with ValV. You need your ear more than ever when playing your violin, and in time your head will learn how to get the fingers in their proper place in each case (like your B is higher when playing a G at the same time. Or is supposed to, anyway!). Frets don’t help if you don’t know how to listen to yourself.

As to Rockirish’s comment, I won’t attempt to know more than a professional (for the simple reason that I don’t). I learnt to bow on open strings, then I learnt the notes and everything; I played with “normal” bowing for some time and, some moths ago, I began learning new bowing techniques. But I already knew where to put my fingers. What I am sure of is that having tape on my fingerboard, or any other thing like it (in the highly improbable case that my teacher forced me), would have annoyed me and bothered me and made my life miserable for weeks. I just like to learn this way, that’s all. I think there’s no sense in learning to half-do something so that then, when you’re familiar with the way to half-do it, you have to learn again to do it properly.

And finally, Mister Sanzenkoan, stop lyao, because nobody else is. There is nothing funny in what I’ve read so far (either it’s this or my sense of humour is seriously limited, and I can tell you the second option is not correct). If you’re 25, act like it, and maybe you can set a nice example to us, the little kids. And, to misquote you, if you had the maturity or ability to see how ridiculous your posts are you would think twice before posting them! Although I don’t know if, in your case, thinking twice would make any difference. If you’re an astronaut, go and play your violin in outer space and leave people on Earth in peace. If you’re not, stop making fun of people. I wonder who had the idea that doctors can’t post on a forum (maybe you know more about the subject than I). As far as I go, though, I respect Eri all the more for being a doctor (which is something some of us should also do, eh?). Not only I respect Eri, but I also respect all the other people there (yes, even you, strange isn’t it?). So why don’t you do the same and make things agreeable for the rest of us. It’s not that hard.

I wanted to contribute to the discussion about the fretted violin. I learned using a normal violin. Always had trouble with intonation, especially up the neck.

I ordered, and received the "fiddle fretter." The closest I can come to describe it is almost like a very large post-it note with frets, you put on the fingerboard of the violin. The expectation for its use is that, bridge to nut distance is 33cm. Its quite inexpensive - currently, less than a set of violin strings. Here's the site: http://www.frettedfiddle.com/

I put it on a cheap chinese violin, which in fact, didn't sound bad to start with, good setup, decent strings, etc.

I had never played a fretted violin before. As with any instrument with a movable bridge, you have to adjust bridge distance for intonation with 12th fret, and may have to angle the bridge to get it to play in tune across all strings. I play mandolin, so the principles for intonating the the instrument by moving thre bridge apply.

What I found: The intonation of my playing was wonderfully improved. Vibrato was somewhat possible, but doesn't come remotely near the expressivity of an unfretted violin. Double stops were fine, but this will only be true if you've intonated the instrument properly. Glissando is more akin to sliding up a guitar's neck, than the glissando of a violin. Obviously, there are lots of trade-offs here - for better intonation, you're giving up various unique qualities of the violin, among them, your ability to influence the precise pitch of the note you're playing.

My intent is to use this as a learning tool to encourage "playing up the neck" (as I already do on the mandolin), with the expectation that transfer-of-training will eventually apply when I play a normal, unfretted violin.

Personally, I wouldn't try using a fretted violin. I learned without the frets and my intonation is great. If someone were to use these frets, then I would suggest they only use them until they 1.know where to place their fingers for good intonation or 2.have a decent enough ear for then to be able to tune their own fingers. As for vibrato, glisando, etc, I think that by the time someone is good enough to start using these techniques then it's time to give up the fret either way.