I used to be a staunch vegetarian but I am not any more though I still have a concern for the frivolous use of animal products in making human items.

Now of course the creative arts could be considered the highest reason to use such things but I feel a little sad that ivory has to be used to make parts of the violin.

I have no problem with things such as leather and other animals parts of animals which were to be used for food already as I'm already a meateater but ethically ivory still doesn't sit quite right with me.

I looked at some of those carbon fibre alternatives and they where a whopping 5 grand! so that is out of the question.

Also I want a cheap violin which would be around 100 british pounds or less.

I have seen some on ebay for 40 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEW-4-4-VIOLIN-OUTFIT-FULL-SIZE-3-4-1-2-also-available-/370225689740?pt=UK_Musical_Instruments_Sting_Instruments&hash=item56332bb48c), and another for 70 (http://www.violincompany.co.uk/newviolins-full-size.php), could you guys please recommend which would be best plus if there would be any other devices I would require to get started plus links if you could be so kind keeping in mind cheaper the better.

If it is unfaesible that I can't get one without ivory within that price range I think I will bite the bullet and hope that one day I can swap it out when I am richer.

Thanks.

Is this a wind up? What part of a violin do you think is Ivory? Did you mean ebony perhaps?

Well I am new so no it's not a windup and I guess yes it would be ebony.

In that case, you can rest assured that ebony does not come from animals, it is a type of timber used for the black fittings such as fingerboard tail piece etc. In fact, the only 5 animal derived parts of a violin are:
1) Gut strings. At the price you are talking, I wouldn't worry about that.
2) The proper glue is made from hide
3) the tip plate of bows may be ivory, but is more likely to be bone or white plastic. In any case, ivory is banned and so you will only find it on antique bows.
4) the grips of the bows tend to use leather.
5) some bows use whale bone for the grips. These days, they tend to use silver whire any way

Hope that helps.

Your 2nd option if a full sized instrument and has pretty well everything that you would need. The 1st instrument appears to be frankly a toy and is a 3/4 size instrument. A full list of required items would be:

1) Violin
2) Bow
3) Rosin
4) Shoulder rest (optional and can be home made at least to start)
5) Spare Strings (If you can afford to, I would reccomend changeing the string on the instrument to dominants because they are kinder to fingers)
6) Tuner (optional)
7) Duster (raid one out of the cleaning cupboard)
8) Pencil
9) Mute
10) Practice mute if the neighbours are a problem.
11) Music stand
12) Music
13) A TEACHER
14) Eraser
15) a big bagful of patience

items 8,9,10 & 14 are not needed straight away
item 4 is personal preference. I have never used a shoulder rest, so don't be told you must have one.

If I am honest, I would reccomend going to you local Violin shop and discussing it there. I understand that instruments at this price level are not always up to standard. A shop whose reputation rests entirely on selling instruments is going to check the instrumets they sell. Too many people buy these really cheap instruments, they do the right thing and the instrument does not work and they blame themselves and give up. A bad workman does blame his tools, it is true, a good workman knows a bad tool and doesn't try to use them in the first place.

Hope this helps.

Thanks; both replies are real helpful.

One more thing (for now ).

I am left handed.

I was reading most play with it on the left shoulder but did a quick search and saw some do indeed play in their 'natural' lefty position.

I can imagine it would be more comfy to hold the violin with the right shoulder and strum (?) with with bow with my left hand.

As most, and esp. a cheap one which I will be buying, will be designed for the other side will it take much moderation to adjust it for this practice should I want to?

I am afraid it will. The violin may look symetrical from the outside, but it asymetrical on the inside. You would have to swap the bass bar over, which would involve removing the top, removing the bass bar, making a new bass bar, fitting it and replacing the top. The sound post would have to be re-fitted and the bridge refitted (or more likely new ones made). The finger board is probably set up for right handed use and will have to be reshaped. I would be astonished if you could get anyone to do it for under £500 to be honest. There is no advantage in any case, both hands need to be equally skilled.

BTW, you bow with your bowing arm not strum.

Yea I bought it today and the guy in the store told me it wouldn't be any problem to just move the chinrest but now looking into it I see that he was talking crap (though otherwise a nice fellow).

I was quite concerned with this since I've been 'fiddling' (excuse the pun) around with it and so far it does indeed feel less comfortable to bow with the right hand rather than the left.

I've been reading up and the main arguments FOR just going with the default righty style (being a lefty) all seemed less than compelling mostly amounting to- just do it cos it's easier all round and less fuss.

There was another initially more compelling argument for using a specially designed lefty violin saying that fine motor reflexes will always be superior in the dominant hand and so bowing being the most important thing puts the lefty using the righty violin at a considerable disadvantage.

Your argument though, that both 'doing the notes' and bowing are equally important has sort of swayed me.

What do others think?

I don't want to commit to something I'll later regret.

Do most ppl consider bowing to be the primary priority of skill or both hand's tasks as just as important?

SO, I realize I am way late on this and so it probably won't even matter now, but I still felt like commenting anyway. I am left-handed and learned to play the violin the right-handed way, with the violin on the left-shoulder and the bow in the right hand. I haven't had any problems with it, and in some ways it has helped (the fingers on my left hand are a bit more nimble and so it is easier to do all of the fingerings and things like that). It doesn't seem to have severely hindered me, I perform with two local orchestras at the moment as well. I think the big thing is simply practicing until you are comfortable playing the violin, regardless of what style you use.

You will not want to get a cheap junk instrument.It will not sound good and will discourage you from advancing.There are no ivory pieces on a regular modern violin.You would do best to save your money and get a decent instrument and not buy a piece of firewood