I totally agree with you. This world is so complex, that there is no way we came from a big BELCH in the universe. Did you know that if the world pushed half a mile away from the sun, we would all freeze to death, and if it were pulled half a mile towards the sun, we would all die by heat. God placed the world exactly in its spot in order for us to survive. I can`t even see any reason someone would believe all the junk that is out there. Sorry for rambling on, but this is a strong subject for me.

It`s so easy to argue with a non-flexible belief system.

Just for fun, think about this a little. `Just because` isn`t a good enough reason for a belief system. Neither is the arguement that there has to be a reason to our existance. Why? If that`s enough of a reason to justify a supreme being then every microbe, one-celled organism, plant and animal are of equal importance and have an equal right to life. That makes each of us mass murderer since we all have to eat another in order to survive. Who condones mass murderers?

Sounds ludicrous? Maybe. Maybe not.

BTW, this unquestioning affirmation of concepts spoon-fed to the masses is appalling. Makes me think of a cult and brainwashing. Ever notice how a cult has a shepherd and a flock? Ever notice how the sheep don`t get to think for themselves?

Also, as far as I`m aware this is not a Christian Forum. This appears to be an International Forum and the participants could come from a variety of belief systems. How very egotistical and superior to suggest that any one belief must be the correct one. And how very affronted some are by even the merest hint that their beliefs may be wrong.

In fact, if I had the time, I`d offer up a number of Bible passages that `smite` such attitudes and augment my point - despite the fact that the greater part of the Bible is a hodge-podge of elitist opinion.

I won`t argue the point further, it`s just as inappropriate for me to post off-topic as anyone else. My apologies. One last word: there`s a mass of material out there to read and study - we should all take advantage of it.

Now, back to music!

I resent the "unquestioning affirmation" comment. I have spent the past couple of years struggling with things that I don`t understand in the Christian religion. I have finally managed to get my head around most of them.
And it is NOT inflexible. The Bible is open to interpretation, and any sensible person will know that something that has been translated from ancient Hebrew through Latin and Greek to English should not be taken literally. Which I don`t. Also, it was written according to the knowlege and social customs of the people of the time. I personally think we need a new Bible.

I was required to read and write essays about every chapter of the Bible, old testament and new, before I qualified for graduation at the college I attended over 40 years ago. I also studied 6 other world religions for several years before I went on to earn a law degree. Those who maintain the fantasy that atheists don`t know anything about the Judeo-Christian religion or it`s texts don`t realize that the more one studies, the more ridiculous and anachronistic all religions appear to be. I`ve also studied neuro science for many decades and become convinced that we humans ARE the sum of a finite number of biochemical interactions. Those who question this are simply too intellectually lazy to put in the hours of scientific learning to know better. Now, I enjoy everything about playing and practising on my viola, and I believe this joy is a just reward for the discipline and devotion I give to this artform. I support the musical educations of 6 adult children and 3 grandchildren as well as my own. We atheists like to do good things for their own rewards. Life is great, and playing the viola is one of the best parts.

How on earth did this turn into a religious discussion? This is a music forum.

This got religious, in my opinion, because music is by nature spiritually stimulating, and once people begin to speak of spirituality, some are also moved to prosletize for their particular brand of spirituality. That, in turn, stimulates those of a different religious perspective to stand up for their own views. Personally, the viola provides plenty of the warm positive emotions that neuroscientists identify with a good serotonin supply between your neurons. The self stimulation that results from practicing can only reinforce those biochemical processes and be very good for mental health and self esteem, whether one chooses to believe it is a gift from god or not.

Or... you may choose to believe that God shows Himself in everything good.

they got religious because I said I was proud of playing the viola and somebody out there had a problem with the word pride......... go figure.......

Ok, I dont` know where this topic got started in the post, but I want to add my 2 cents.

I have a feeling that nanny guy was either lying or a pranker, because you can`t go through life happy thinking that there isn`t a place after death. Just having oblivion makes life seem pointless, your gonna die soon anyways, nothing you do has any real impact, happinesss is fleeting, there is no reward for being good in life... see, you can`t be happy.

imo, being proud of playing the viola (or in my case, piano) well isn`t a sin or anything. Playing the viola, or doing anything well is celebrating God and you. He gave everyone their gifts, and by using them you are thanking God for giving them to you. Sinful pride comes from believing that God isn`t responsible for any of your talent, and than you are above Him. And the whole war over religion? I think that`s a load of crap. I think it doesn`t matter what faith you have, just as long as you have faith. It`s just too hard to believe that such a large amount of the world could be wrong and going to hell, because everyone believes what they are doing is right. Even though some religions are a little odd and others have begun to be outright manipulative, the basic idea of religion, learning morality and connecting with god (or gods) has not changed.

All the atheists, can you really believe that such complex organisms like us were formed just from chance? Many scientists who have studied the human body have said that basic functions of life, like seeing with our eyes, are so miraculous that there has to be a higher power who intervened.

(I know a few things were quotes from Dogma {love that movie} but I`ve actually had those feelings for a while, the movie just communicated better that`s all. But a warning to pious christians do NOT see it, as it will likely offend you. Meanwhile, it cracks me up.)

Ooook then, that was a little too deep for me. I`ll gonna go play Alla Turca and some other bright songs.

look buddy...im a violist and let me tell you we are no idiots. There IS reason why being in BAND is so much more IDIOTIC than being in orchestra. Thaqt includes all instruments in orchestra. PLaying the viola doesnt imply anyhing about that person. Same as playing an Oboe or a tuba or whatever. Look man im a violist and my boyfriend is an Oboe player. And hes awesome. and Im awesome. DEAL WITH IT...get over all this stereotyping...its childish.
peace out
gen

To the person who thought I was a guy: I am a 62 year old grandmother! And get real. After you finish college and a few philosophy courses maybe you`ll realize life is great and full of happiness without any silliness about an afterlife. Do you still believe in the tooth fairy too? Just stick with the viola and you`ll discover plenty of reason for living a good moral life without any necessity of pie in the sky bye and bye. Haven`t you heard the saying, "Virtue is its own reward"?

Why do you say "Phooey" to all believers of the supernatural??

I gave up Christianity a long time ago...... I believe in Taoism. I believe also in alot of new age philosophies..... And to say that there is no afterlife..... no spirit guides....

I don`t know. You are entitled to believe in whatever you believe. I commend you. But I do not feel like anyone should put down anyone else;s beliefs....

What is the point of life if God does not exist? Do we all wander around here aimlessly until we die? No life after death? That seems proposterous to me. How is anything fulfilling unless there is a purpose for life? Something doesn`t come nothing. Do explosions of a building create a new, improved building? Does a car crash create an even better car? Obviously not. Then, how can anything like evolution and the Big Bang theory be true? There has to be a Creator. NannyLynn, how can you explain how everything came into being if there is no God? I would like you to answer my questions, please. Thank you.
Jen

Clarinet Player,

Evolution is fact........ accept it....

If you must bring God into this arguement, is it not reasonable to think that god created the world, then MADE it evolve?? Honestly, even god must want to change the universe every once in a while!!

Nannylynn, you`ve accused Christians of thinking that atheists don`t know anything about Christianity. However, at the same time, you seem to act like a Christian can`t know anything about atheism. I am a Christian, but that doesn`t mean I don`t know anything about atheism - independently, I`ve read a variety of religious texts and books on philosophy, and I do understand the reasons for different worldviews.

You also are insulting religious folk in general ("Do you still believe in the tooth fairy?"), which can never lead to anything good. If you want to debate some philosophy, then we certainly can, but it`ll just turn into a pointless argument if everyone on every side is tossing insults around.

You seem to think that religious-types are good just because we want to go to heaven, and that we believe it`s impossible to live a moral life without heaven.

But no. Personally, I do good out of love.... a love of people, and a love of God. Loving God is the same as loving goodness and truth, since He is the source of these things. So I live morally because I love all that is good, all that is God. Heaven is nice, but the key to GETTING there in the first place is realizing that you can never get there by your OWN deeds. So plainly, doing good because you`re trying to get into heaven is a bit of a contradiction.