I`m wondering...

I play piano and I like to go to the gym couple times a week. I`ve noticed that because the gymtraining gets my muscles all tight and "heavy", I somehow lose the movement in my fingers and shoulders. Could someone verify that or am I just being dilluted?

Have anyone ever met or seen a guy who really can move his fingers around the piano and ALSO have really big and muscular forearms? And I don´t mean those fat 50-year olds but young (I´m 25) and slim, sporty guys.

Lets see, I play alot of hockey and workout and it does not affect my playing. So I guess its you. lol I dont know.

· TRY icing or putting warm stuff on your whole hand and wriste and part of arm ABOUT 30 mins before playing….I DON’T body build or anything put I work out a lot and my hands always felt somewhat numb after wards….. although it wasn’t enough to keep me from playin keep me from PLAYING ..> HOPETHIS HELPS

there are pianist injuries that involve numbness of the fingers or even soar wrists. First of all if you are tensing your wrists while performing any action with your fingers, it is possible you could be developing tendonitis. This can eventually lead to carpal tunnel syndrom if not watched after. Carpal Tunnel Syndrom (CTS) is a disorder where a nerve is pinched in the wrist causing numbness or pain in your fingers or hand (usually just numbness the the hands starting usually with thumb index and middle finger). In the worst cases of CTS there is surgery. A basic way of testing this is holding your arms up in the air with your wrists pressed together (above your head (almost)). YOur fore arms should be making a straight line with your palms pointing outwards the the tops of your hands pressed together> this means that your wrists are also as bent as possible. If you feel numbness or cold with your pinky`s, then you have carpal tunnel syndrome and I reccomend you see a doctor. If your case is not too severe, you may be able to use non-inflamatory drugs or a brace to help with your symptoms. Because I am not completely aware of the extent of your work out, I may not be able to diagnose if bench pressing can cause this issue, but many pianists with poor technique, tense fingers and wrists can develope CTS.
Email me at Wongk@elmhurst.edu for further discussion.

You could try soaking your arms in warm water before you play. I don`t think it`s your muscles` problem, I think you`re just too tense.

Or you could go to the gym less (and let your muscles relax). If you really need a work out then I suggest taking martial arts.

CTS is a nerve disorder, not relating the muscles. Though, it may feel as if your hands are numb or soar, it is really a nerve being pinched.

Thanks everyone for opinions. I may have given a little bit unclear information.

First of all, I do not suffer from numbness in my fingers. So that CTS doesn´t count on my behalf.

Actually, I HAVE suffered from a sore right wrist for the last 6 months. But that doesn´t relate to playing piano, I´d assume. Maybe more to gymtraining, writing essay answers in exams - overall too much to do with my wrist. For example bench press has really got my wrist feel the pain. I´d better lay of totally for a while from gym, piano and writing.

But the original question... maybe I can´t describe myself properly, English isn´t my mother tongue. For example, if anyone knows a bit of pop music, so Billy Joel has this piece called "Root Beer Rag". If I would now go to the gym and really work out my arm muscles, forearms, triceps, biceps and shoulders, so maybe the next morning beside the fact that my arms would be tired and excausted, my FINGERS wouldn´t play that same piece as good as they could. I somehow... lose coordination in my fingers and the speed and accuracy (all of which that piece requires, or a walz of Chopin´s... op. 64, no. 2). I guess it has something to do with impulses that my brain send to my fingers??? Is the right word psychomotorical??

I would like to make another question. If we´d consider playing piano with sport terms, so we can fairly well say that it is an aerobic exercise. In another words, it doesn´t build muscles but it enhances endurance. Pianist´s hands are like a marathon runner´s legs, aren´t they??? So if we put two and two together: a guy who plays constantly piano can´t expect to be able to build big foreams (with that I mean muscles below your elbow)??? Could someone comment, please?! Has there been somekind of research about this subject - the implications of playing piano to a man´s hands/muscles/ability to control finger movement after some hard work with hands?

I don´t know if I´m way of line when talking about piano in other dimension than as an art form. But bring it on! I would like to have some answers, comments, verdicts. Thanks!

There should be no problem to both play well and bench heavy. The problem with your coordination and lack of speed and accuracy the next day you have benched is because of the extreme work you just did. The body needs time to recuperate, the muscles, connective tissue, and most, the nervous system. Playing piano is musclework after all. So keep in mind, that day after lifting you won`t have your best performance as a pianist. But as your piano technique improves, these kind of things will have less and less influence on your playing. You can play well anytime. But this takes time.

You can both lift heavy and play Chopin the same time. In fact, the other may benefit the other. Playing fortes becomes easier. Also the concentration you need in playing piano helps you to concentrate in sports.

I know all this from my own experience. I have been training sports all my life, including bench pressing with multiple reps with well over 400 pounds (max 484). I also play piano for instance Chopin: fantasie-impromptu, polonaise in As (op53), first ballad, minute waltz, etc. Now I am concentrating more in Grande Polonaise op 22 and some nocturnos, waltzes among others.

Keep on training both mental any your physique!

I would appreciate if I could get some more opinions about this/these subject/-s! Thanks again. =)

Okay, I have to say to you vlad from Finland that you are bullshi---ng, right?!

Nobody does 400 pounds from the bench AND play fluently those pieces of Chopin you mentioned. Fantasie Impromptu, my ass! =)

If we look at the top 100 players of the world one has to say that NONE of them can do even 100 pounds from the bench or nothing of the sort...

You exaggerated just a little bit and that´s just fine. =)

Well, Vlad is from FINLAND, so he may have mixed up the English language (I`m just playing devil`s advocate, I think he`s bullsh--ng for 2 reasons. One, he really only listed the top most famous hard pieces by Chopin, and he said he`s only NOW trying some waltzes and nocturnes. Second, he listed them like he was bragging). But I do know that you can be extrememly athletic and still be good at the piano. I mean, I have a reputation at school for being the strongest person in the grade, and one of the strongest in the school, and one of the most generally athletic. I`ve also been playing piano for 2 years, and am playing pieces like Aufschwung (but I practice for 1-1&1/2 hours a day, so I`ve gotten good through hard work) and am trying out La Campanella. So yes, athletics and piano can go together, but I don`t know about bodybuilding. Like if your a hulk, then i really don`t know. But if you`re just tightly muscle-bound, yet average to above average size, then yes.

Wow you certainly have gotten some interesting replies on this one. Here`s my take: Generally when you engage in bodybuilding you develope what is called `slow-twitch` muscle fibers. They are the ones that are good at managing lots of resistance, but aren`t great when it comes to presicion. When you play the piano you are typically working fast-twitch muscle cells. They work with great precision, but aren`t good with a great load. Sooo, after your work out (besides still being a bit fatigued) you have increased the number of slow-twitch muscles, therefore interfereing with your playing ability. I would think that if you practice alot you could equally develope your fast-twitch, but I would take it easy on those weights. And in answer to your question; No, I`ve never met/seen anyone who`s really good at the piano AND has huge forearms. Toned, yes. Built, no. good luck with your music AND your bodybuilding though!

Dear friends,

I have no reason to BS you. Please understand, that I have been playing the piano for almost 30 years (well, no more than (1-)2(-3) hours a day). I`ve also been involved in my sport for 20 years, 10 years of which at the internat top level.

Yes, I have been playing the pieces I mentioned. Some of them well (among them op 66, which is really not one of the hardest Chopin pieces there is (many people think it is virtuosic or so but it is not). There is only one part (37-40; there are 4 times 16 1/16-notes) that was hard for me to play fluently in tempo allegro (agitato). But to be honest, I cannot play the op 22 Polonnaise fluently in meno mosso, tempo=96 (editions Henry Lemoine)(even though I have been playing it for 10 or 12 years or so), but I can play it through). The ballad no 1 is much more tricky than the fant-Impromptu, but I can play it through, fluently (?). Nocturnes and waltzes, I have been practising for 20 years. Also the etydes are essential for learning technique. I have been playing: op10/1, difficult arpeggios in tempo recommended=104 (almost fluently anyway), op10/3, technically easy, op10/5 "black keys" easier than it sounds, much repetative (right word??), op10/12 revolutionary, demands good left hand control. One of the hadrest pieces I have been playing is the etyde op 25/11 "Winter wind". I definitely cannot play it fluently.

I haven`t gone through the whole etyde book, but if you do, you have a very good base to learn almost anything.

Chopin is my favourite composer. Also I like Mozart (I have played: sonatas KV 331, 333, 311, 545, concertos KV 467, 488, some rondos and fantasies. Beethoven only sonata Pathetique through, Mondschein through (third part needs more practise), Les Adieux through. Waldstein only parts, concerto no5 parts (first part almost whole).

So this kind of music BS-vlad plays.

You call me BS or anything you like to. But besides piano studies, I have been into sports, and yes, I have benched close to 500 pounds, and I also have power cleaned 418 pounds. There is absolutely nothing that makes it impossible for a strong man to play the piano.

I am certainly not a concert pianist. When I was about 13 or 14, my piano teacher made me understood, that if I wanted to be a real pianist, I should train at least 3 or 4 hours a day... And if I wanted to develope my skills to that level, that I could go to the music academy (at the age of 19-20), I should train even more (at least 5 hours a day or so). Then I decided that piano playing is only a hobby for me, and put more energy in sports and studying at school. So I went to an academic career, not forgetting the sports career. I think this was the right thing for me to do. I have a satisfactory sports career and I will be a PhD in two-three years.

I apologize for my remarks, but with only your previous comment, (and a hint of jealousy, I`ve only been playing 2 years) I felt a little doubtful of your claims. But now that you mention that you`ve been playing for 30 years, and you have shown that you do have weaknesses, that you`re not perfect your claims seem much more plausible.

By the way, I think that depending on how often you play the piano, and if you play it in certain ways it can build huge forearms. For example, most bodybuilders work out every other day, because then the body works on building muscle mass rather than improving muscle tone. So you you play pieces with lots of fff in it every other day, I see now reasons why your forearms shouldn`t be as muscular as mine.

By the way, I commend you on your accomplishments.