I actually goofed on my terminology. I still need to learn the triplets(bars 15-34). I just assumed that the chordal cascade were also triplets (I am not fantastic on my music theory). Actually my burning desire has helped me conquer the cascade over this past week. More specifically was vexes me (from a performance standpoint) is some Rachmaninoff`s left hand work. I have 2 biographies of him and they allude to him trying to compose things that would be difficult for anyone to play without his octave and 1/2 reach. In this piece, I am referring to bars 45 and on(where 4 notes are required for each hand). I feel like I have arthritis trying to contort my left hand to hit those four notes. Incidentally, I have the same problem with the intro in the first movement of his 2nd piano concerto ( I would rather not roll my hand if possible) Thanks!!
PS Nothing in either biography alludes to the story about being buried alive. It did say that Tchaikovsky thought it was fantastic.

Just to clarify my last statement. Tchaikovsky thought the prelude was fantastic not the story.

Don`t the chords cascade via triplets? I don`t have the piece in front of me but I have a hunch they are. I have small hands, esp. my thumb and pinky. There are exercises that can help you with the reach and getting all fingers limber enough to handle his chords. I suggest you keep your hands stretched and do an abundance of arpeggios to handle it lightly. There are other key exercises... find them on a website somewhere. It`s a little difficult to describe them here. A brush up on theory would help with overall understanding of the piece (technically trying to conquer it).

Thanks for the ideas, Lisa. I will definitely search for piano stretching exercises because I am developing a passion for playing Rachmaninoff that won`t die. My problem is that I don`t have a passion for Chopsticks, Mary Had A Little Lamb, and other rudimentary pieces that help build a good foundation for reading music and playing technique. I have to kick myself in the rear to practice scales. I believe that you are correct about the cascading triplets. But I was using confusing language because this section is immediately preceded by RH triplets.

have u already finished the cascading cords section(i think u mean the fast part with three notes in one and two in the other right before the sort of repeat) because if you havent done this part yet that i have a huge reading tip that will require no reading of that part for you. it makes that section go real fast.

Actually I have finished that part. I think I know what you are getting at. After about 8 chords or so it repeats itself. Yeah that was a huge help. My problem is hitting those left hand chords the 4th bar after the cascading. It is so awkward it is hard to hit them firmly and correctly. But like anything else, it will come with practice. Though the opening of Rach`s #2 concerto (1st movement) might never come without rolling my hand. Thanks Sky.

Alright. I see where u`re talking about right now.
I`ll not attempt to tell u prepartory technic ex to do for that section, as it`ll be too late for u to apply for that song, unless u don`t mind waiting another 3 mths or so the see the effects.
But this is what I`m going to teach u-Practice method for chordal passages for people with small hands.
1.) Play the Right hand, top line(melody line first) and let your ear register the melody. It`s always omportant to know what it eventually has to sound like. This`ll ensure that yr chords will sound and make sense as if moving in the same musical direction.
Then do the same thing again, but in octaves now...or whatever harmonic intervals the notes are( just play the outer and bottomost layers together ). And it`s impotant to have a good firm grasp on the keys and a realiable feel of the octaves. Now play through bars 45 and so on( work it out in really small parts) and take care not to alter your hand shape. Feel the parallel motion as the right hand move around in steps. Do by parallel motion without changing your shape and size of the octave. Remember, it`s all about feel and firm grasp of the shape, esp when the passage is one whole block of sequential playing.*notice how the notes move in steps, and keep the same interval/distance when moving to and fro...)
3. Speed it up..keep the shape and feel the parallel movement. Now add in all the remaining notes in the middle. And using the same technic, get a good feel of the right hand chords ( now in full ), and focus on maintaining the feel and shape. Do by parallel movement,and remember, don`t change the shape of the hand , as they`re all sequential playing, but emphasize on the bite of the thumb and finger 5( outer iron cast ).
4. Speed it up and work with your arm weight now.
5. The rest is obvious...Left hand...Both hands etc.
Thank you. Let me know if it works for u .
Or u can post at http://www.solomusic.net/forum.
Thank you.

DW thanks for the advice. I actually have very large hands with long fingers (nothing like Rachmaninoff`s, though). I think it is a matter of time. When I was trying to learn the cascade, I learned the right hand first and ran through it until I could do it very quickly and accurately. Then I tackled the left hand in the same manner then put the two together. (the same way I tackled maple leaf rag). Mixing your advice with my methods, I think the best course might be to run through the left hand on those bars starting with the octaves and then adding a finger after I can do it quickly and accurately. I can run through the right hand with no problem. It is a function of conditioning my left hand to do what my right hand can. Thanks for the input! I`ll let you know how it goes.

I went home for lunch today and practiced the prelude and started to work more on those bars in question and I resolved the problem I had been having. My problem was that I was trying to play it straight on. With the simple swivel of my wrist about 10 degrees counter-clockwise and it is a snap. Everything falls into place and I don`t hit notes I don`t want to or strain my knuckles. I can play it quickly, forcefully, and accurately. Next time, I`ll work on a problem for a few weeks then ask for help. ha ha Thanks for all of your ideas. It is nice to have a forum where I can ask pianists that have been playing all of their lives technical questions.

I also have relatively small hands. How can I play the part of the left hand "beat" chord (or the first beat of the measure) in the cascading triplets part (in animato tempo)? The piece depicted the lower c# and b be played simultaneously? Pardon me for my ignorance, but which from these notes is the melody note (or what should my rather defeated finger opt to play)?

It`s been 12 years since I had formal piano lessons and now I`m just figuring these beautiful pieces out by myself. I`m glad to have "stumbled upon" this wonderful forum. I hope I`d be enlightened from this query. Thank you.

Just play low then chord really really fast... lightening speed.... so both notes get in on the beat! Sort of like a grace note!

t31n99,

As for the swivel... be sure to watch your elbows... don`t swivel those too much, as their swivel will start having an adverse effect (kinetically) with your "swivel" and it will not sound the same and may even become uncomfortable.

Also, when I meant exercise, I meant not on the piano. Ex.: to help loosen up the thumb, try putting it behind your pinky across the palm of your hand then put your thumb back to normal position and stretch the whole hand out. Do this slowly and don`t over-stretch! It will help make your stretched palm feel more natural (and limber things up).

Also, I wanted to tell you that while chopsticks and mary had a little lamb are not very appealing to you, playing piano is a bit like sport... start little and gain the knowledge and physical might to handle the major leagues. You can`t jump right into the Olympics and expect to play as well as those athletes who have a bigger understanding of all aspects of the sport. Glad you have the passion! Go for it, knowing that, though! Consider just reading through some adult theory books!

Lisa,
Thanks for the frank advice. I knew what you were getting at with the exercises. I am still trying to find some resources on that. I have several pianist friends who envy my drive and determination (or stubborness ha ha). I envy their ability to learn the right way and delay their gratification. I realize that the best way to get the most out of my talent is to build a solid foundation. This foundation would include theory, sight reading, fingering technique, etc. I have several good theory and sight-reading books. Now I just have to use them. But when I find myself at the piano to practice, I get this urge to play these wonderful pieces by Rachmaninoff, Debussy, or Scott Joplin and I get the music out and get to work. I need to discipline myself to develop a strategy and stick with it. But thank you so much for reiterating what it takes to build the proper foundation to develop as a pianist You are definitely correct in your assessment!

well i know ur past that part but that was not my tip...with this knowledge it requires no reading at all...the cords in this section are the same cords used in measures 22,23, and 24 the left hand is the same also. the only difference is that they are played broken as three notes seperately but if you look at these notes and the cords in this section you will see that they are the same thing. it makes that section a HELL of a lot easier. and as for the four note cords in the left hand after the tripelet section just practrce these and you r hand will stretch.good luck.

Thanks Sky.