OK everyone, I`ve read through the Hardest Piano Piece thread, and feel that it`s really worn out it`s welcome! Now it`s time for me to clarify a few things:

First of all, and I know it`s been said many times, but there is no such thing as THE hardest piece. Everyone is different in that aspect, and therefore, one man`s Fur Elise could be another man`s Rach 3... that`s just the way it goes, so that`s settled.

Also, in case you were here on the off chance that you might learn what is actually considered the hardest piece, than I shall tell you... Drumroll please........................................................ Sorabji`s Opus Clavicembalisticum. Does this mean that this truely is the hardest piece? Of course not! One person might find something else harder. You never know.

But there is a reason that this piece is more difficult than Rach 3, which is NOT the hardest piece in the world. So those of you who thought it was are probably all shaking your heads and thinking, "No way! `Shine` said it was, so it must be right!" WRONG! Rach 3 may be unbelievably difficult, (I should know, I`m learning it) but it is NOT the most difficult piece in the world.

So those of you fooled by Shine may be thinking, "Well... what makes Opus Clavicembalisticum any more difficult?" In a word, everything. First of all, it is 4 hours long, (Sorabji had also written a piece that was 8 hours long!) second, it has so many notes, that they won`t all fit on 2 staves. Therefore, Sorabji wrote it on 3. Third, it`s very difficult to figure out and interpret, being atonal.

But once again, just because Opus Clavicembalisticum (OC)is considered the most difficult piece, does not necessarily mean it IS! So, to the person who started the Hardest Piece thread, (if you`re even still around) you have your answer. And everybody, please stop using that thread to brag. It`s getting rediculous!

Also, although this is off-topic, will Bonko and Pie stop acting like losers and be serious. Seriously, stop this idiotic spamming...

Thank you for your time everyone. I hope I helped, even though, all of this was only one man`s opinion. Please respond if you can.

ALL the way through the thread? Wow!

Wow, you`re way arrogant. We covered Sorabji`s OC several times already in that thread, and the whole "no hardest piece" stance was taken at least every other post in that same thread. And you`re not impressing anyone by telling us you`re learning the Rach 3 (it`s the Internet, nobody would believe you even if we cared). Sorry if that was too candid for you, but somebody had to take you off your self-made pedestal.

Arrogant? Self-made pedestal? Wow, are you lost! That wasn`t my point at all. Do you think that I was trying to brag or make myself feel more important that anybody else? For Christ`s sake, that wasn`t what I was trying to say! I`m sorry if it came across that way to people like you who always have to feel like they`re a step above everybody else, but if you would have actually read the post, you might have noticed that I specifically mentioned that the whole "no hardest piece" statement had been made before. I`m not an idiot, but I obviously did not make myself clear enough for you to understand.

As far as the whole Rach 3 situation, why is it so hard to believe that I`m learning it? And for God`s sake, did you think I was trying to brag or something? I was trying to make the point that I know that piece well enough to realize that there are things that are harder. Why did you even bother writing a response if you were just going to try to "take me off my self-made pedestal?"

Seriously, I was trying to make a point, but some people are too ignorant to realize that.

Dear sorabji,

I was wondering if you are the actual sorabji... interesting as it is.

Also by the way this is not a message to get at you at all, I respect anyone who can play the piano as well as it sounds you can.

I have been playing for a while now, but properly practising for around 2 years, and consider myself quite good, I am very interested to know how long you have been playing for and if you are graded in the instrument, because the Rach 3 is surely a high feat to get to in terms of playing.

Also I am learning Chopin`s last Etude in C minor, and it is very difficult to me, and I was wondering how much harder the Rach 3 is, and this other hard piece you mention and may have composed.

Well, I might have been Sorabji in a former life, because Sorabji is dead... you never know.

Answering your question, I have been playing for 11 years, but have practiced immensely. I haven`t completely mastered the Rachmaninoff Concerto yet, however, I assume that must take many years, and even then you will still make mistakes. In fact, I once heard a terrible recording of Horowitz playing it, and I could swear I heard a mistake in every measure.

Next, about your question about the Chopin etude in relation to the Rach 3. In the Chopin, you have to be good with arpeggios more that anything. However, if you feel confident, there is nothing stoping you from trying, or at least working on the piece on the side while you work on your other pieces. I started doing that with the Rach 3 when I was 13, believe it or not, and that really helped me when I actually decided to work on it.

But my suggestion is that you learn to play with an orchestra before even attempting the Rach 3. Learn some other concerti, and then, you will have an easier time. I suggest learning:

Grieg Concerto in A Minor
Schumann`s Concerto in A minor
Beethoven`s Emperor Concero
Tschiakowsky Concerto #1
Rachmaninoff`s Paganini Variations
Lizst`s Concerto #1
Gershwin`s Rhapsodie in Blue
Rach 2

I could list for hours, but those are some of the most well-known concerti in the standard repetoire. I think the most difficult part of Rach 3 is staying with the orchestra at the speed required. But let me tell you, you need to be able to do everything in order to play Rach three. The 1st movement cadenza is almost completely black with notes. I think with difficulty, there really is no comparison with the Chopin Etude, though both are difficult.

If you feel that you`re ready to play the Rach 3, go for it! But my advice is to wait, until you`ve been playing for atleast 10 years, and your technique is finetuned. If you are working on the etude after 2 years of playing, then you will have no problem learning the Rach 3 in 10.

Now, about the Opus Clavicembalisicum, I`ll be totally honest... no. Seriosly, if you would look at one page of OC, you`d put it away. The real question is, why would you want to play it? It isn`t terribly beautiful, and it scares the audience. At times, there are so many notes, it makes Rach 3 look like Bach`s Minuet in G. Few people play it, because few people would ever want to play it. I never think I will want to learn it, and by the time I can play that well, I wouldn`t waste my time learning a piece like that.

Well, you`re probably sick of hearing my rambling on and on. If you would like to hear what Rach 3 sounds like, but don`t have a CD, go to www.classicalarchives.com. If you want the music, go to www.sheetmusicarchive.net. As I said, it`s entirely up to you. I think that the Rach 3 is the greatest piece ever written, and the grand ending of a fabulous journey.

I hope I helped.

yes, i am bringing upa a dead topic, but i don`t care. Ok, Im not sure about the opus clavi-whatever, so can i get like a page of sheet music? So far though, the hardest pieces are the 53 studies on Chopin by Leopold Godowsky, it has all the elements except for slowness (with the exception of one piece) huge chords, fast sixteenth note octaves at 140-160 beats per quarter note, everything, I have looked through all the other threads on the hardest piece and downloaded them, compared sheetmusic, practiced some of them, but so far, Godowsky is by far the most difficult of them all, one piece is about 2 minutes, and so all of them put together is still not 4 hours long, but they are pure, nonstop technical mayhem.

Still, could anyone help me find sheet muic of the opus clavi-whatever? Or a midi would be fine.

But the point of the conversation wasn`t to find THE hardest piano piece, it was just someone wanting to play something harder than what she`s doing now.

Jyang,

Trust me, EVERYTHING that EVERYBODY has said on the other thread is SIMPLE compared to Sorabji`s music, the Opus Clav. in particular. I mean really, it`s 4 hours long.

Here is a measure....

http://www.jfdolphins.com/images/Ex11.jpg


And here are the first 12 pages or whatever. (1st measure starts at bottom of page.)

www.opusclavicembalisticum.blogspot.com


If you want to learn a lot about Sorabji, I suggest you go to www.pianoforum.net. A lot of good information on on that site.

Also, I could send you the sheetmusic if you have AIM. It`s to large to send via email (256 pgs. or something like that!).

yeah i have aim, my sn is metal248

To Sorabji

Where can i find a record of OC de SORABJI? Did any famous pianist have already played it?
I agree with you that to discuss what is the most difficult music is to waste our times, cause discussing this is to depreciate the value of music and contribute to incease the number of pianist that play like robots, with no feeling and no maturity, pianists that are not concerned with the history of the composer and the period that the piece was composed and talking about the interpretation,I dont need to say anything.
We need to rediscover the art of the piano, remenbering the pianists of the begining of the 20 century!!!

hey, call me shallow, but i would prefer a technically impressive piece rather than a slow, moving piece. I also don`t think that discussing the hardest piano piece is horrible, cuz people out there are curious and want to know so I don`t see anything wrong with that. Anyways, I put that measure that you(sorabji) showed me and, no offense, but i thouht it sucked, but then again, that was just a measure. Actually, I would prefer a recording or midi or something rather than sheet music cuz i want to know what it sounds like.

I just realized that godowsky`s studies put together might also be 4 hours long because i have a book containing them and it`s 250+ pages.

Well, there was a recording that I found online, but the link is broken now. The only thing that I can suggest is buying it. There is a recording on amazon.com (the last time I checked, at least) that is about $50.

I don`t know if you would like it. It`s atonal, and extremely dissonant. However, if you appreceiate modern music like that, then you shouldn`t have any problems listening to this.

Actually, there are a few tonal parts.

Just a few, though.

hey man, let it be`s a great song