I am trying to sell my old horn and the valves are completely locked up. It wasn't oiled for a very long time... too long, I'm afraid. I've been soaking it in the tub for a few hours now, to no avail- what should I do??

If you're really ambitious (and not afraid to maybe ruin the horn in the process) you could try this link. It's not as simple as piston valves so you should have some experience before trying it for sometime that you need it done right. If you're expecting to sell the horn for a good price, you should probably just take it to a music store and have them clean up the valves for you.

http://www.finkehorns.de/English/ServiceVentile.html

Thanks for the info, but I'm not feeling quite that bold. I let my horn soak in the tub for about 4 hours, and now I have the horn on it's side with some oil in the tubes leading up to the valve. I'm hoping that letting the oil sit overnight on the open part of the valve might loosen it up a little.

Any other ideas before I break down and take it to the music store?

You should disconnect the linkage or string before trying to move the valve. In other words, pressure on the key is likely to result in the key bending or string breaking when the valve is seized.

Soaking the horn in water is unlikely to help. Assuming the valves are closed a squirt of fine oil down the slides might be helpful.

Taking valves apart is not usually the difficult bit - that's putting them back together! With a seized valve the rotor may not come out easily although the cap should come off - perhaps with the aid of more oil. A good technician should save you time and alot of frustration ...

Don't take them apart !!!!! You could cause some serious damage. You could just have a build up of corrosion gook and/or a siezing of metals.

Do remove the strings or linkages.
Go down to the hardware store and get some penetrating oil.
Spray a good amount of this down each slide for each valve. Let the horn sit upside down for a bit (20 mins to 2 hours, or overnight)then try and gently turn the valve rotors with medium effort.

Other than that let a professional have at it, or sell it as is. What kind of horn?


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Oh, and take the valve caps off and spray the penetrating oil on the top of the rotor also.

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Oh, and take a hammer and hit the back of the valve just a little before you try and turn them.

I'm definitely not taking the valves apart.

Ok, so remove the strings completely?

As for penetrating oil, does just that mean an oil with a low viscosity? Is there a specific kind I should look for? I've been using sewing machine oil on the valves pretty much everywhere you can imagine. (top, bottom, in all the open tubes leading to the valves)

When the strings are off, should I just try to turn the bottom of the valve with my hands?

Not that it makes any difference, but I'm working with a Yamaha 667. I'm wondering if I would even trust the average music store repairman to take it apart...

It does matteer what horn you are working with - YES.

A Yamaha 667?
STOP RIGHT NOW AND THINK.
Does your 667 have hollow rotors? If you have the 667 with regular rotors you are probably okay, If you have the 667 V, VL, or VSL STOP. do not even think about doing this yourself. The metal composition of the valves reacts with the valve casing and pretty much chemically welds itself together. Your horn is most likely ruined and unlikely to be saved even by me. But there is a chance.

I would not trust the 'average' music store for this type repair. I would trust a good music store. If you want to sell the horn you have a couple of choices.

Getting the valves to move may damage the valves AND the valve casings. If it does damage the valves your horn is ruined and not worth anything.

If you do get the valves to move you may need to have them rebuilt (c. $400 USD for each valve). If you don't have them rebuilt you should advise the buyer of the valve situation so they can make an informed decision.

Or, You can sell the horn in the condition it is in. Someone who knows what they are doing may choose to take the risk to attempt a repair. Or may consider the price you are asking and what a valve rebuild would cost for them.

If you want to atempt the repair Here is what you do.

Removing the strings is suggested because if you leave them on you may tempted to try and turn the valves with the levers and if the rotors are not ready to go you might bend the levers (you don't want to do that). So it is suggested you remove the valve strings.

There is an oil specifically called "penetrating oil" It is not so much the viscosity. Every company has their own "proprietary" chemical they use but all are similar.And this "special chemical" will eat away at corrosion. Gunk/Liquid Wrench make penetrating oil. If in America you should be able to find it at Home Depot/Ace Hardware or a Car store like Kragen/CSK/NAPA etc.

After the soak you should turn the rotors by hand ,yes. Before you do you want to take the hammer and tap the back of the valve firmly. This shock with the hammer will help loosen the crud that is binding the valve. Then loosen the front valve cap by 1/2 turn (only 1/2 turn). Take a flat tip screwdriver and loosen the back screw in the center of the rotor 1/2 turn (only 1/2) whack or tap the back of the rotor again with the hammer.See if the valves turn.

WARNING !!!! if they turn smooth right away you are okay. If they move just a little bit or seem crusty, do not try and turn them - you will damage the valves. Turn the back screw and front valve cap back to their original positions.

Thanks very much for this info.

I have a normal 667. How can I find an experienced horn mechanic?

I do not know what city you are in but typically this is a great way to find one.

Go on-line or into your phone book. You want to get the contact information for the local musicians union, the nearest college to you with a music program, and the nearest symphony orchestra.

Many (and probably most) Colleges and Symphonys will have email addresses for the Horn players and faculty. Get the email addresses and send one email to them all. Your subject line could be, "Need a good horn repair person". In the body simply put your situation,

MY name is jack and I live in BeanStalk county. The valves are frozen or seized on my Yamaha 667. I haven't played it in 17 months. Do you know of competent repair person?

I would be very surprised if you did not get any resposnes. Don't expect something the same day as symphony email is not checked every day. If you don't get a response after a week call the closest musicans union and someone will have a referral for you.

All professional musicans have at least one repair person they trust. I have 3 different repair technicians I use depending on what is needed. And the higher level professional probably knows the family of his favorite repair tech as they spend much time in customizing or adjusting things.

My old horn teacher was in town and he fixed it for free!

YEA!!
Funny I thought about your situation last night.
One of my students got a loaner from her shcool and all the valves were locked up. So, I fixed hers also.

What a funny week this has been.

This has been quite interesting...because the golden rule I've always got from any tutor/repair person/player is NEVER EVER put your horn in water, in case of corroding the rotors?
Hmm... Any opinions?

Never put your horn in water?! Well, then don't play it either. Obviously my opinion but, I think your tutors and repairers forgot to take a basic science class when in school.

When you are on stage playing a loud Bolcom or Mahler piece under the hot stage lights and you go and put your horn away after the concert, or even let it sit there in stage during intermission there is going to be a lot of condensation (water) in the horn. There is moisture gong through your horn constantly, CONSTANTLY. There is nothing wrong with bathing your horn, and it is a neccessity (AND I am against the "chemical "dips and cleans). The only problem you would have bathing your horn is if you don't get the water out and don't oil the horn. Then you will have problems. So, after you bathe the horn, blow everything out. Oil the rotors throughly and then play it for awhile (20 minutes should do okay).

I have been bathing all my horns 1 or 2 times each year, for 32 years and I have no valve problems.

You learn something new every day I guess...thanks!

Don't do what I did - put cooking oil in the valves! Had just got back from a long holiday and got a call to play in a show, I had no oil left and I was in a rush so I resorted to this desperate measure, took me weeks to get it going again!