It might just be a matter of preference, but I'd like to know your thoughts and opinions on this. I've seen other horn players play both ways. I was wondering if it made any difference whether you held the bell up or let it rest on your lap.

Thanks in advance for all posts!

It does make a difference but it is still preference.

I play with the bell off for two reasons. One reason is when I stand I will be playing with the same position as when I sit. The second reason is I like the sound better. It seems to me the notes have more body and life of their own with the bell off the leg.

Technically I think the horn on the leg will reduce vibrations. This sort of deadens the sound. IT doesn't deaden the tone just the length of sound. Although there is a difference in tone it is not something very many people will notice or care about. It will help to make stacatos speak and it will help when you have to play really really loud the leg will help heed off distortion. Distortion when playing loud is common on many horns. Horn on the leg will help delay the distortion from ocurring.

A concern I sometimes have is some people may develop a poor posture by having the horn on the knee or leg they may scrunch to get to the horn thereby sacrificing proper posture and getting a less than full tone. However, that doesn't mean it will happen. I don't require my students to do it either way. They can have their choice. My students are about 50/50. Half of them stand for their lessons, the other half sit. The ones that stand obviously play off the knee the ones that sit play with it on the knee. Both can develop poor postures so it doesn't make a difference to me.

When I've listened to many horn players play, students to professionals, I've found myself more fond of the tone that off-leg players seem to generate than the tone of the on-leggers. On-leggers sound too open and bright to make, and those that hold the horn have this sound that really makes me melt and send chills down my spine. Of course, this maybe just be coincidence that the on-leggers I heard just happened to have a more developed tone the those that held the bell up ... who's to know?

I've been playing more and more off the leg lately. I used to play on leg all the time but I feel like I need to learn to play standing without sacrificing anything just because I'm not used to it. When I play with the bell grounded the mouthpiece doesn't quite reach my chin even, so I tend to elevate my right foot - either by riding the heel of my shoe up the leg of the seat or putting a large dictionary under my foot. I can't stand to play in a hunched posture to reach the mouthpiece since it can so hider the airstream and effect tone and response and generate unhealthy fatigue.

"coincidence that the on-leggers I heard just happened to have a more POORLY developed tone the those that held the bell up"

forgot that word. :O

Also... me n00b and can't find edit button... gah.

Right from the start of learning to play I have always been told never to rest my bell on my leg. I don't know if it's coincidence but there seems to be a trend among American students to play bell-on-leg while in Europe bell-up seems to be taught from the beginning. Is there a tendency to encourage young players to rest their bells on their legs over there or is it merely that all the players I've seen have been taught that way? Interesting discussion!

I think it is laziness over here in America. It is easier to play with horn on the leg and therefore a better chance of keeping the student playing. I also think many players don't care. A lot of people I know claim to not hear a difference whereas I think there is a big difference. But most good horn players I know who play horn on leg do so because they don't want to work keeping the horn off the leg.

I definitely agree. Even my extremely limited knowledge of physics lets me understand that resting the bell on the leg will dampen the vibrations. Also means that you're essentially playing into your own body! All I know is that right from the word go if I let my bell rest on my leg even for a few notes I got shouted at by my teacher (who was an extremely experienced orchestral player)... I soon got into the habit of keeping my bell in the air! )

Resting the bell is not necessarily wrong. You mentioned that your limited physics lets you know that resting the bell will dampen the sound. And that statement is under scrutiny actually. Just like cut/collard/detachable bells.

The placement of the bell on the leg may dampen the sound, or others will argue the placement restricts the bell from vibrating as much. When the bell doesn't vibrate as much then the sound vibrations are not absorbed by the bell and in fact project better as they waves bounce off the bell material rather than get absorbed by it. (Their argument - not mine).

I don't require my students to play off the leg. 50% of my students do it on their own. If they are only learning to be better in school and have fun then I want them to be comfortable. If they wish to go further I do encourage off the leg; this way they have the same position wether sittign in band, orchestra, or standing up and playing a solo.

It brings up questions of metalurgy all over the place. Like most classic Conn 8D's have a .175 inch bell thickness. My Conn has a .140 inch bell thickness. I prefer the thinner bell I think it gives more richness in the tone as it does vibrate with the sound. Others, and very good, very smart others prefer the .175 thickness. Now these are all nickel bells, what happens when we add yellow brass, gold brass, ambronze, copper, ceramic, and graphite bells into the mix? So many variables.

As mentioned before by others, I too personally prefer the sound of the horn held-up. Now, I very rarely play with the bell on my lap. It might also be because my body is a little on the short side and it is more comfortable for me to play off-the-lap.

I like encouraging my juniors to try lifting the bell off the leg once they have developed a solid sound. This is because I notice that my juniors tend to get lazy when they play with the bell on their lap and either leave the right hand in an improper position while playing, or not even place the right hand in the bell at all! With them holding the horn off-the-lap, this problem is rectified.

The disadvantage of holding the bell up is that sometimes the younger players will have intonation problems since the horn is less stable off the lap.

I really believe whether someone should play off leg or on let depends on the individual's personal anatomy & personal preference. For some people with long torso's playing on leg means hunching over which isn't going to be good for their breathing, etc. But I've seen some tall men prop their right foot higher so that they aren't slumping to play. For someone like me with a short torso, playing on leg can be done with perfect posture. I really can't which one sounds best. I saw/heard the Cincinatti horn section(hmmm... or was it the Cleveland?)in concert last summer at the IHS symposium in Denver. All of them were playing 8-D's with the bell resting on their leg in a medium-size concert hall. They sounded MAGNIFICENT! Then I've heard a lot of other players playing off leg at the same symposium who also sounded fabulous. Sooo . . . For me, it has more to do with comfort and the ability to relax when I play. I can't last very long playing with the bell off leg before I start to develop quite a bit of muscle tension in my shoulders & back. That certainly isn't good for my playing. When I'm in concert, however, when I need to sound loud, REALLY LOUD, I often lift the horn off my leg thinking it probably gives me more volumn & projection. But, you know, I can't say whether it makes a difference or not becuase I've never listened to myself from the back of a concert hall. I kinda doubt I'll ever have the opportunity to! ;o)

Valerie Wells
"The Balanced Embouchure" for French Horn

Hi Valerie!
It was Cleveland you saw. Cleveland was scheduled for the Denver IHS.
Besides Cincinati doesn't use 8D's.

It's funny, as every picture I have seen of Cleveland has them off the leg. Perhaps they adjust depending on the venue. Or maybe only take them off the leg for pictures.
But it was Cleveland that was there at the Denver IHS, and you saw them, so they must play on the leg at least at some times.

I read a disertation about 3 months ago which 'proved' picking the bell up off the leg DOES allow you to play louder. For some players it is more measurable than others.

When I first started horn, there weren't exactly any horn players to teach me, so my band director had me start with it on the leg. A few years ago at a solo festival though, I had a judge who played the horn, and he gave me a few tips, including one to hold horn off the knee. I, personally, have found it is easier to be more expressive like that because I have more freedom to move around. It has also made me more versatile in that I can play in different venues standing or sitting. We had a performance just last month with our Christmas Victorian band where we were outside standing with some of those folding metal stands. A few years ago, we'd had to do the same thing, but I was much more prepared and comfortable this time because I my muscles were already accustomed to holding the horn like that. Nowadays, I perform all of my solos standing and almost never rest it on my leg when playing sitting.

Nice comments, Mormhorn. But I try to be careful not to use too much movement when I play off leg. I've played in a section next to a hornist who used so much movement, like a woodwind player, almost dancing with his horn, that it was a HUGE distraction and source of irritation to the whole section! I don't want to catch that dread disease, "woodwinditis" wherein they CAN'T play unless they are gyrating wildly. Oh please, calm down folks!

Valerie Wells
http://www.beforhorn.blogspot.com/

"woodwinditis" ? Yeah, we have a saxophone player who does that, and it does tend to be rather distracting.

Iv'e found some passages of music I play better on leg than off. If I have to do a lot of rapid fingering changes, especially "cross pattern" between 23 and 1, etc., it causes my horn to wobble and, which of course that causes my tone to wobble as well. To avoid the wobble, I have to hold the horn more tightly which adds more tension to my left hand and arm, and eventually it's literally a pain in the neck to play. For passages with a lot of finger wiggling, I prefer to sit up straight & high, but leaning slightly forward and resting the bell on my right knee to stabalize it. It's just so much easier & more enjoyable to play that way.

Valerie Wells
http://bebabe.wordpress.com/