I came back to the horn 4.5 years ago after a 15 year hiatus. I was 55 at the time and am now 60. Previously (1985-91) I played the horn with a large wind ensemble for 6 years and considered myself a pretty decent horn player. I have never had formal training other than taking lessons from my high school teacher (which were more music lessons than anything) and I have taken lessons from professional symphony horn players off and on throughout the years.

This last hitch of playing has been especially challenging for me. After 4.5 years I am still having some issues that I can only say are cognition based. Playing a horn, or any instrument involves very complex neurophsyiological processes, more than I think our current level of scientific knowledge knows about. From the instant you see a note, translate it and turn it into a motor skill(playing the horn) lots of neural circuits must fire to then create a similarily complex a motor response. Lots happening with plenty of places for "misfires"

My neurological-motor response is not as rapid and as crisp as it should be in certain circumstances when I play...a simple example is a complex rhythm can sometimes "lock up" my brain and I drop out and let the other horns take it ( younger, sharper brains)

I think part of my issue is I have not played the horn all my life and and I have had a couple lengthy periods where I did not play at all, so I did not stay practiced. I wish I could have done so, but life happens and music is not my profession, plus I have many competing interests. 2nd I think music is a real challenge to the less trained, older brain. Its much like a foreign language, you got to use it or you can loose it and its hard to get back. The science says our brains remain plastic all our lives, but some of the music I try to play trips me up, where when I was 35 would not have. I think plasticity may be relative

I suppose I could give it all up, but I am bound and determinded to continue playing as long as I possibly can and continue to strive to get better. I enjoy it to much and most of the time I can make sweet music with the rest of the horns in the section, but it does get very frsutrating when I have to let some notes, phrases go on by me. I just wondered if anyone else here with gray hair has similar issues. Cheers

Pokey

All very good observations.

One thing eluded to but not specifically stated is that when you are performing music you are using both hemispheres of your brain at the same time. Few things we do require us to use both sides of the brain at the same time.

I agree if you do not practice it you will lose it - temporarily. It does come back, like riding a bicycle. But, at 60 your not going to be able to ride like a competetive 20 year old on the cycling circuit.

What can you do? - - - - - You can look at your diet.
One thing we tend to do as we get older is eat more healthily, and with men especially we need to worry about our cholesterol. Unfortunately many diets designed for older men eliminate a great deal of fat to help keep cholesterol down. What is often not published is that there are many meat fats that are great for the brain synapses. Fats from red meat are especially good for lubricating our brain synapses. And there are a few studies showing that men with Alzheimers and Cholestrol issues have noticably more severe Alzheimer symptoms as they decrease the Cholesterol levels. So, do you want to live longer and not know what is going on, or not live as long and have a more cognisant life?

Your brain needs fats to stay hydrated and keep the synapses working properly!

If you have access to organic meat products you may find that the cholesterol is not an issue. I switched years ago and now buy organic meats as a rule and seldom eat the 'other' non-organic meats. And my Cardiologist has since taken me off all cholesterol medicine. Don't just look at your BAD numbers, look at the relationship between good and bad cholesterol.

Try eating organic red meat the day of rehearsals and performances and see if you don't notice a difference in your playing abilities. You don't need to eat a 22 oz Cattlemans Cut, just 3 or 4 oz is enough, and organic meat will natually time release and distribute itself (unlike conventional meat products). If you don't have access to organic meat then get the best quality meat you can get; either Prime USDA, or Choice USDA. Don't eat USDA Select, Standard, or Commercial grades.

For a better understanding of eating and understanding what the commercialization and govenrment regualtions have done to our formerly healthy food chain read IN DEFENSE OF FOOD by Michael Pollan.

John- Thats one thing I am up on and well versed in; my cholestrol #s as I am a past biomedical research technologist and nuclear cardiology technologist. My total cholestrol is good, but my HDL is low despite niacin and fish oil that I take. My ratios could be better. I eat about the most organic, healhtiest red meat one can get; wild salmon, moose and caribou from here in Alaska that I put in the freezer myself.

I think part of the picture may be a medication I have been on for the last 15years that some times can cause cognitive issues, but thats very hard to prove & the occurance is considered low in trial studies.

I just need to retire so I can have the time to practice every day. I think practice is the answer just as exercise is required to loose weight.

Pokey

Ah, Alaska.
Got to love that. Those meats are pretty good, but perhaps too lean. Maybe you need some meat that's more fatty.

Well, the medication could easily be participating. Not to be too pesimestic but I beleive clinic trials are just that, "clinical trials", they are not necessarily impartial or unbiased, just trials doen in a clinic situation with candidates they chosen who they think will benefit from the medication. That being said, if there is low percentage of issues in the trial group (handpicked) then the percentage could easily be higher, and more severe, in the real world.

Our bodies and brains are pretty interesting. You are absolutely correct about practicing though. Even Froydis Werke wrote an article about playing as we get older and she specifically said as we get older we have to practice more to stay at any given level.
If you can make it happen, perhaps 15 minutes in the morning before you go to work and then whatever you can when you get home may help.

Are your hesitation mostly on rhythms, if so the Fussell, Ensemble Drill for band and orchestra is really good for rhythms,Section 9 and section 10. He also has all your intervals and scales. Although it is designed for a band/orchestra group I use much of it in my private lessons. YOu can get it on Amazon for $8, also pick up the Walter Moeck French horn Warm-ups ($2.50)

Yes, some rhythms are where I typically have the most problems and I am not sure I can be specific. I can practice a trouble spot in a piece for our ensemble to the point of "I have it" and then go to the next rehearshal and crash and burn- this is not in all instances mind you. Practice does solve the problem in many cases. Some more complex rhythms I play just fine, but then one that is simpler may trip me up. Not a lot of rhyme or reason to it. I have methods books out the ying yang (Kopprasch, Pares, Singer, Horner)and am not sure another one would help. My plan for the summer is to work with my horn teacher to pick out some of the more problematic studies and work them to death plus do the old basics of scales and arpeggios, 3rds, 5ths, 7ths.......work those neurons :-) does that sound reasonable from your instructor point of view?

Pokey aka Paul

Yes.
If you email me at jlove@johnlovemusic.com I will send you 3 pages from Fussell to see if they aren't something you might like to add to or replace some of your etude books. ( I don't think a page or two will be too much of a copyright infringement).

If you were a student of mine I would be very interested in the rhythms that mess you up.
I like to take the measure my student makes the mistake and by looking at the page I can usually figure out what I think their brain is thinking that causes the falter.

If you want to, for fun, when you make a simple mistake circle it with a pencil and if you can make a copy of the previous measures (or page) and email it to me. If we can figure out the logic structure of your brain and understand how it is reading notes and rhythms we might be able to design an exercise to retrain the way your brain reads the music. Or if we can't retrain it, we can teach you to distract your brain when certain patterns arise to help avoid some of the mistakes.

John

That sounds super. Let me find a couple-three brief examples of some rhythms that trip me up and I will send to you as pdfs to your email address. Also, I will gladly take the etudes you speak of.

I appreciate this conversation very much as my horn teacher has little to say when I start talking about cognition and how we process and play music. Of course most musicians are not trained in neuroscience. I suspect you are famliar with the book "Your Brain on Music" by Levitin, a book about the neuroscience of listening, interpreting and playing music. A good book, I need to read it again.

I have a really busy week coming up at work so it may be a few days before I can get something to you, but I will for sure. Thanks again very much.

Paul

Paul,

Please take your time collectig a couple of passages, the more music before the error the better.

Lessons with students I work with always include conversation, analogies, and metaphors. So many of my students are young I want to get as many ideas into them as possible. Some concepts may be advanced for them today, but I believe as they get older the ideas 'snap' in and they go, "ah, that's what he was talking about".

One of the first things I tell my students is that unlike their school teachers I do like it when they make the same mistake. Because if they make the same mistake I have something to work with and I can figure it out and help them. They are surprised when they find out a quick rhythm problem and a high note problem are problems for the same reason.

I have not read the Levitan book yet, at least not directly. However, when I was young I was accident prone, and all the doctors knew my parents,who were teachers (my father was chemistry and physics). When I did something serious like burn my eyes with chemicals the Opthalmalogist required I learn everything about the medicines and how they worked and what they were doing. When you(I) know what the burn chemicals did, how and why; and what the procedures I was going through it changes the manner in which you practice and perform your rehabilitation.

A couple of head traumas and spine injuries including damage to the corona radiata, Brocas area, parietal lobe, front part of temporal lobe, and medicines that spearated communication between my brain hemispheres; I've learned quite a bit.

Regarding your teacher and cognition of music. I would gather you are correct that s/he is not trained in neuroscience, or even basic brain function. In schools of music we get a little of how to move, and only recently have they actually been requiring learning techniques like the Alexander Technique. But they have avoided how the brain works in music and how the body works in music. (Example: I don't change embouchres directly because it always causes problems. I do however work with a students posture begining at the hips and working upwards vetebrae by vertebrae which results in a changed embouchre that has proper and correct support.

Whenever you're ready just send your email to my email and we'll start working on it.

Have fun enjoying your busy work week!

John

I also came back to horn after a hiatus -- 33 years. After getting my chops fixed with "The Balanced Embouchure", I still had problems with slow fingers & brain that us older horn players deal with. A semi-retired pro horn player, who has multiple serious health issues gave me a tip really works for sharpening the brain & helping my fingers learn to fly -- gingko. He is still performing in small chamber music ensembles and says he never leaves home without his gingko. I tried it, and it works for me too.

Also, "Clarks Technical Studies for Trumpet" were very helpful to me. My first year back to horn, I practiced one of Clark's studies each day SLOWLY, tongued with a metronome. It seriously helped my sight reading and finger dexterity. I'm not sure why, but slow, careful practice improves speed.

Valerie Wells
"The Balanced Embouchure" for French Horn
Wells123456@Juno.com

Valerie- just wondering if you got my couple emails asking questions about BE?

Back to cognition, my horn teacher who is the assistant principal for our local symphony acknowledged that she has congition issues too, she's likely in her early 40s. She says counting has gotten more difficult,and she is has never had any lulls in playing, so I think there is something to be said about the aging brain and perfroming music. I think another issue I have is a medication that I have to take (which is not compatible with ginkgo) can cause problems too. All part of the joy of getting older I guess, which means we have to work harder at it. The fact that I have had a couple long periods of not playing of course doesn't help. Cheers.

Paul