I'm playing in a band (the oldest volunteer band in the country! Woo!) that requires me to transpose from F to E flat. It's not that hard, but just annoying. My band director has allowed me to borrow his alto horn (which has a different slide to change from E flat to F). I like the idea of changing slides rather than transposing.

I own a Farkas, and was wondering if there were such things as a E flat slide I could buy. Ever heard of one?

Yes, you can have someone make you an Eb slide for your Farcus. I would just transpose until it isn't annoying anymore; but then I transpose often and get paid to do it.

To get a slide made you need to find someone who has the tools, pitch, and experience in bending tubes. What state are you in, I might be ba;le to refer you to someone.

Indiana (southeast). About how much do you think a slide would cost?

Okay, the closest person I know to you would be cost prohibitive because you would have to mail your horn to him. But, there are lots of good repair people in Indiana. You can call around and ask if their are technician capable of making and bending tubes/slides.

Cost: If you plan on using your trigger you will need two slides made. One for the Bb horn and one for your F horn. Also, remember you will have to pull your valve slides out farther so that you stay mathmatically oriented. Probably about $300 - $500 for each slide depending on whether the technician uses new stock or old stock laying around, and whether you want it in nickel or brass.

I can't say with a perfect knowledge, but I would guess that the intonation of the valve combinations, especially 23, would be somewhat sharp with the addition of nothing but a an Eb crook. Maybe there's enough length in the valve slides so that they can be pulled out to bring them down to pitch. What say you, John?

I agree that learning to tranpose to Eb is a lot simpler than buying a crook and pulling out the slides, just for a few pieces. I have found transposing into Eb horn the easiest transposition there is. If you start working on it, I think you'll be pleasantly surprized at how quickly you catch on.

When I first started learning to transpose, I photo copied the music, then wrote in all correct notes in RED ink. It got me through a difficult concert that I only had a short time to prepare for.

Valerie

Val,
On the Farcus model I believe the 3rd slides are too long already anyway. I know lots of players who get them cut shorter. So, I think there is enough to pull out for the Eb attachment(s). If you have lots of money to throw around and you want a nice little trick then do it. Heck I have a French Horn in the key of C; but surprisingly I hardly ever use it to play a french horn part that's in C.

If you are going to play French Horn you do really need to know how or learn how to transpose. If you are not goign to learn to tranpose then pick another instrument, seriously. Anyone who is going consider making money or playing at a "Pro/Am" level you need to be able to transpose no matter what instrument you play. But French Horn? If you're not going to transpose there will be very little for you to do.

Playing French Horn and not transposing is like jumping out of plane without a parachute - you just don't do it. It would be like getting married to no one; or cutting up a tree for a fire place you don't have; wearing scuba gear to snow skiing. Playing an oboe with only a single reed, playing Bassoon with any thumbs.

Transposiing is part of the French Horn package.

<<<Playing French Horn and not transposing is like jumping out of plane without a parachute - you just don't do it. It would be like getting married to no one; or cutting up a tree for a fire place you don't have; wearing scuba gear to snow skiing. Playing an oboe with only a single reed, playing Bassoon with any thumbs.>>>

ROFL!

But seriously, John, you're right. Transposition is incredibly confusing at first, but it gets easier & easier. The trick is to pick a short simple phrase or scale pattern and play it every single day; first in F, then in the key you're currently working on. When that gets easy, you pick a longer more complex phrase or scale pattern... and so on. It becomes automatic after a while. I've been doing this for about 2 years. I find, however, if I don't work on at least a little dab of transposition every day, I quickly lose the skill.

Valerie

Valerie

Thanks for all of those comments.

I get how important transposing is now. I've picked it up quickly. But, in marches, french horn only has the off beat stuff (which gets annoying on it's own). And then transposing it! Woah- that's a lot of annoyance. The only issue I have with currently it is the chromatic stuff (which isn't really that hard).

And I won't be wasting my money on a slide. My band director gave me his alto horn! (Yeah, I feel REALLY guilty- I'll work it off later.) Plus, the music was written for an alto, not a horn. But I WON'T put off transposing anymore.

The alto horn is an Ambassador (Olds?). The number is 450812. I heard it's a student model. Am I right?

Oooooo, I'm jealous. I wish someone would give me an alto horn. Alto horn was my first brass instrument I played way back probably around 1966, so I have very sentimental feelings about those. I played the one with the forward facing bell that you cradle in your arms like a baby. And, you're right, the sound of an alto horn adds a certain flavor to traditional marches that you just don't get from a French horn. Have fun with that one!

Val

As John already stated, every hornist has to know how to transpose, at least in the most common keys Eb, D and C. Learning by doing is the best principle - after you played a few concerts with pieces requiring transpositions, it will get more and more natural. After all, most of the music from the Baroque to the early Romatic era only contains a certain number of notes in the horn parts, making them quite easy to transpose. The Crowning Mass by Mozart for example is in C, but first horn only has 5 or 6 different notes to play.

A more extreme example: I played "L'Elisir D'Amore" by Donizetti last year. The horn part was written in the following keys: low Bb, C, D, Eb, E, F, G, Ab, and high B. When I first saw the notes I thought "Oh Sh**", but after a bit of practising, it came out well.

Mave,
Yes, "L'Elisir D'Amore". I recall it changes like every 3 pages or so. And you think you've done every key until the penultimate page turn he throws in the high B. Fun piece. The only thing I don't like about transposing is when you have to play in F again.

Transposing becomes so easy that when you find yourself doing it you're having such a blast that when you go back into F horn you still WANT to transpose and it's hard not to transpose.

There are lots of reasons to transpose - If you are asked to play at a church function often times at the last minute they want you to play out of the hymnal with the choir. Also sometimes the composer will transpose the score incorrectly so you need to accomodate for that. I recently helped out a High School theater production and the lead had a couple songs he sounds better in a different key (so as we came up to those songs the trombone player sitting next to me would say, "Oh he does this one in concert D". Two years ago I was in the pit of an operatta and the lead got delayed flying in from Idaho. So the artistic director stood in for him during the first half. And of course everything he sang was a lower key. But the best part is when someone is missing from a rehearsal and you can step into their seat and cover their part regardless of which instrument it is. Conductors love it. And when you do that you climb up on their list of favorites very quickly; contractors also.

I can think of no good reason why publishers can't make the music available in the appropriate key (ie F). For students, its so easy to scan the parts and change them appropriately that musical directors that make life unnecessarily difficult for students are being silly. Of course, modern arrangements come with a full selection of parts (bass and treble clef lower brass etc).

Obviously, the reasons why older orchestra music often requires horn players to transpose is related to the instruments which existed when that music was written. Its almost as absurd to suggest that the violins should transpose their parts as the expectations placed on french horn players!

(Incidentally, I can and do transpose but find it doesn't make Orchestra horn playing any more interesting).

Two reasons you don't see pre-transposed music.

Reason one - Copyright infringement. It's not the musical directors or management it is the copyright laws.

Reason two - As you understand the natural horn more and more reading an orginal part lets you see what the composer was thinking and helps you to possibly play with a different tone quality. Many composers today don't know a lick about many instruments; but in the earlier times the composers knew about the instruments. They knew when they wrote a note for the Horn whether it was going to be played open, 3/4, or fully stopped.And they knew what the sound was going to be. If you are reading an original part and you see certain notes blended with certain instruments it makes more sense and allows a better performance. You can tell if the composer wants a rolling 3rd or a metered 3rd. You might not be able to tell this on a pre-transposed part.

There is a third reason that I don't think we should tell anyone. Many early composers wrote for 4 Horns when they only needed 2 Horns. But because of key changes and missing open notes they woudl write Horns 1 and 2 in one key, then 3 and 4 in another so they could get the complete diatonic scale in all open notes. If you allow for pre-transposed music, orchestra personnel managers will see this and see with our modern Horn there is only need for 2 Horns, so half of us will be out of a work.

<If you allow for pre-transposed music, orchestra personnel managers will see this and see with our modern Horn there is only need for 2 Horns, so half of us will be out of a work.>

HAHA! So true. Last night at orchestra rehearsal we were working Shuman's 4th symphony. No where have I seen it more obvious that two horns could the whole thing perfectly well, but all four of us were having a ball playing this one. None of us play this particular orchestra gig for the money; we love the conductor and his programming. We compete for the priviledge just to play under his skillful direction.

Val