By mistake ( all those bottles look alike ) I oiled my Conn 6D rotors with 'Hetman
medium bearing & linkage' lubricant. I applied it directly through the tuning-slides
into the rotors. Aprox. 5 drops per tuning slide.
Does anybody know if this action possibly can hurt the instrument ? Because this type
from Hetman is obviously not intended for the way I used it.

Don't worry. You didn't put in Hetman #2 so you should be okay.
I am going to assume you are using Hetman regularly. If so just oil it with your Hetman of choice 5 days in a row and you will be fine.

If you are not using Hetman, then what are you normally using? (A petroleum or a synthetic).

Normally I use 'Al Cass Fast' but that looks to thin to do its job for
longer than a few days.
And with the 'Hetman # 13.5' the rotors feel heavier to operate,a bit sluggish
is the best way to describe it.

Speaking of lubrication, what brand/type of oil would you recommend? If it makes any difference, I also have a Conn 6D. However, I hope to change that soon to a Conn 8D.

This is completely off topic as my knowledge of french horns is slim, but every time I see Conn 8D Typed, I see a smiley face : )

AK42- yes, smiley faces (wide eyed smiley faces), this is because everyone is happy and excited when playing a Conn 8D.

OIL:
I know personally two very good Horn fabicators. They use Al Cass and only Al Cass.I like Aja Pro oil. If you are going to use Hetman, you might try #11 or #12. NEVER use Hetman and Al Cass on the same valve.

Apparently no one posted above has read my "RULES FOR OILING YOUR HORN". I will mention them again in brief and then again with the reasons why.

In Brief:
RULE 1 - Never mix petroleum based lubricants with synthetic lubricants
RULE 2 - Oil your Horn everytime you take it out to play and when you put it away.
RULE 3 - Oil your Horn for every hour of actual playing time.
(Exception - There is one horn make who uses special plastic valves - do not use oil on plastic valves.)
RULE 4 - If your valves need oil, you have damaged them.

In more Detail:
What is the purpose of oiling our valves? The valve is most commonly a hunk of brass bar rotating back and forth inside a brass casing. When metal rubs against metal it wears on each other. There is a specific tolerance (amount of space) engineeered between the valve rotor and the valve casing, your oil will sit in this area of tolerance. Oil first acts as a lubricant by becoming a buffer between the two pieces of brass. Even though you have a buffer you still have some metal to metal contact. Oil's second job is to pick up the very small pieces of metal the come off the metal and hold them in suspension. Oil's third job is to pick up any other contaminants that get introduced into the valve area (things you blow in there) and hold them in suspension.

When you add oil some of the contaminants being held in suspension are pushed out of the metal to metal contact area and they get blown into other parts of your horn and expelled out the bell or out the slides when you remove them. By oiling on a regular basis you continue to thin out the contaminants on a regular schedule.

RULE 1 - Never mix petroleum based lubricants with synthetic lubricants.
These two lubricants are made from different products that generally do not get along. When combing petroleum based oils with synthetic oils there will almost always be a reaction that almost always results in sluggish valves. If you want to change from one type of oil to another type of oil you really should clean the valve rotor and casing completely before introducing the new type of oil.

RULE 2 - Oil your Horn everytime you take it out to play and when you put it away.
If you are using a petroleum based oil you should oil everytime you get your horn out. Petroleum oils evaporate. Your oil is made from a combination of chemicals and is intended to be used in it's original state. However, different chemicals evaporate at different rates. So, even though you might see oil is still there, certain properties of the oil are not there, because they have evaporated. Please notice that I say oil your horn everytime you take it out to play; not once a day. Cetain chemicals evaporate within four (4) hours, most will be gone in ten (10) hours.

Why oil when you put the horn away? Because while you have been playing you have been blowing a lot of air through you horn which has helped to evaporate the oil and also has forced some of the oil out of the tolerance area. And you have introduced a lot of moisture to the valves. The number one reasons valves get seized and stuck is from corrosion that developed when you put the horn away. Oil the valves after playing to help prevent corrosion.

RULE 3 - Oil your Horn for every hour of actual playing time.
For the same reasons in rule #2, you are blowing lots of air through your instrument and moisture. Just like you need to stay hydrated when you play or execise, your instrument needs to stay oiled. For most school band rehearsals you will play only 20 minutes in a 1 hour rehearsal. But if you are playing a musical, opera, or other type show you could play an hour or so straight.

RULE 4 - If your valves need oil, you have damaged them.
If you oil you valves when you need to, because you feel they need it, you have already caused damage to your valves. That feeling is there because you have loss the lubrication properties of you oil and the metals are starting rub against each other.


I have played Horn for over 30 years. In that time just about every horn player I know has come across valve problems. I have fixed a lot of valves for my friends over the years and when I ask them how often they oil their valves the response I get is, "Whenever they need it." Of every horn player I know only two have not had valve problems. One is a horn maker friend and the other is me. And we both follow the above rules of oiling. I think that says a lot about the rules of oiling.

Thanks for your extremely specific reply on my question !
It explains my sluggish valves ! But Hetman makes a statement on their bottle
that got me on the wrong leg !! It says 'compatible with peteroleum-based oils' !!??

Hetman can be compatible with some petroleum, but there are even some petroleums that don't mix well with other petroleums. So find an oil you like and stick with it; that type and that brand.

Depending on you make of Horn, the 13.5 Hetman might not be good for your valves tolerances, which is why I suggest trying the 11 or 12, they're a little thinner.

I keep a bottle of oil in each Horn case, one on my music stand in the music room, and one or two waiting to replace whenever one of the others gets near empty.

I've heard all those rules about which oil and which grease to use. I've broken ALL the rules and my horn valves have always worked just fine. Go figure. Maybe I don't have any trouble with mine because I clean my horn quite frequently with a good dishwashing liquid and brush. (?????)

My favorite oil for using inside the horn valves is the blue Ultra Pure Lamp Oil I buy at Walmart. It's highly refined so there's no odor. It's only about $5 or $6 for a whole quart and it works great! For the rotor posts & spindles I use Selmer key oil.

The slide grease I like best is a wonderful long lasting red synthetic and made by a friend horn player of mine. Unfortunately it won't be available after I'm done with this bottle.

Valerie Wells
http://www.beforhorn.blogspot.com/

I personally don't care for Hetmans becuase it melts away too quickly.

Valerie Wells
http://www.beforhorn.blogspot.com/

Valerie brings up a good point.
Notice she has picked something and stuck with it.
The lamp oil is a great idea - when I was younger part of our private music lessons was making our own oil. The base ingredient was kerosene. It worked wonderfully.

A highly refined lamp oil will be mostly kerosene, or kerosene like. Also, if your valves do get sluggish from mixing the non-compatible oils, the kerosene will cut through the gunk really well - so you might not have to take things apart to clean them.

Excellent post Valerie!!!

Thanks, John. But maybe I just got lucky! I've heard stories about valves "freezing up" from incompatible lubricants. Maybe they are true, maybe their horns were just dirty. Who knows?

BTW, when I first heard of people using lamp oil, I freaked out thinking they were going to get toxic fumes. But, the lamp oil I use is odorless; really a nice product.

Another thing, because Hetman's slide grease is so popular, I'm thinking that it may be incompatible with the lamp oil I use. Perhaps the lamp oil "cuts it" too quickly??? I dunno.

Valerie
http://www.beforhorn.blogspot.com/

I shaked up something here for sure !http://www.8notes.com/images/smile.gif
A day after I applied the Hetman I went back on using Al Cass Fast and my rotors
run as smooth as silk again!
The Hetman 13,5 is still being used as indicated on the bottle "bearing and linkage lubrication"
and does it's job very well in that way !!
For my tuning slides I'm using a recipy from a local repairman and I'm not knowing what the
ingredients are ( looks and smells a bit like a kind of 'baby-ointment' ) this keeps the slides
moving without force and doesn't harm the metal or finish of the instrument.

<<I shaked up something here for sure !>>

Just what the horn world needs, more movers & shakers!

Glad to hear your slides and valves are recovering.

How's your mom?

Valerie Wells
http://www.beforhorn.blogspot.com/




<Added>

blewit, I hope you know I'm just playfully teasing. The last thing I would ever want is to offend you. I have a quirky sense of humor, and have been in a very kooky mood lately. When you were talking about your valves getting better, it struck my funny bone. It almost sounded as if you were talking about a family member getting well. We love our horns, don't we? Val :o)

Atkinson Horns - I don't actually own an Atkinson and I can honestly say that I have not liked every Atkinson Horn I have played - but I must qualify that statement. I do really like his AG2000's. They are very clean and accurate. Except one time I was up at the shop and he had me play one that I hated. I looked at him like he was crazy and had lost it. Like, what went wrong with this one and why haven't you destroyed it yet? It turned out to be a special order instrument where the player wanted more resistance in the blow, etc. Ugh.

So, yes the AG2000's are nice, clear, and clean Geyer wraps that play well. I forget which model but one of his Kruspe wraps in Nickel makes a fantastic 2nd or 4th Horn instrument. I mean that low end of the treble clef and just below it (E down to F#)is right there with a really nice response and sound. If I find myself playing 4th a lot again I may consider having him make me one of those.

Presently we are working on a little project. Back in the 70's his father worked with the players in Los Angeles and Max Pottag to come up with an American brass equivalent to match the brass European Horns the Chicago Symphony was playing at the time. We are in the process of recreating this treasure with one of my older horns. Phase one has been completed by changing out the bell. Lots of good things about that. Once I get everything noted; the good and the bad, then we will comence with phase two which will be a leadpipe change. We are going to try five different designs of leadpipe (one of them his fathers original XL leadpipe). When we get this done and are happy with it he will have the modification posted and offered on his website for those who want to do the same modification.