hi everyone. i am currently looking into buying a french horn for college use. i may or may not be majoring in music, however i still would like to play in college. my horn teacher has a 5 year old used atkinson a800 with a screw bell that she is selling for $2000. i also found today on wwbw and another site, a brand new a800 without the screw bell for the same price. do you think that this is a good horn and do you know of any other good horns within a price limit of $2000-$3000? also do you know of any good places to buy a horn?

also, what is your opinion on buying a french horn over the internet? thanks!

The Atkinson A800 is a 'dealer' instrument. This is not one of his 'custom' horns and in fact I don't believe he actually even makes it at his shop. I surmise it is made under contract by someone else; but I could be wrong. Regardless, if the instrument plays well, then the instrument plays well. Let me repeat that again, If an instrument plays well, then the instrument plays well. And this applies no matter who made it or how much it costs.

Advising someone what horn is a good horn to buy is difficult for many reasons. Mostly different horns have different characteristics. And you need to match your style and ability of playing with a Horn that can respond for you. I love old Conn 8D's; but very few people can play them properly. They take a lot of air, support and attention to a constantly changing right hand to maintain proper intonation. You have to play everyday to maintain an ability to play a horn like this.

Horns I like that are good and priced well in the used market are King, and Reynolds. Yamahas have a very good and even scale that is mostly in tune with itself. Holtons tend to have a very accurate medium and high range. However I find Holton's not so easy to play in the low end and I personally find their tone center too tight for me. I've seen some nince sounding Jupiter Horns also.

Regarding your Atkinson A800. The suggested new price of one of these is $3,000. But everyone is selling them for $2000. It surprises me your teacher would be trying to sell you a 5 year old one for the same price as a new one. If you are interested in a used A800 in new condition I know a professional I used to play with in Arizona who is selling one for less than $2000.

INTERNET
Buying over the internet can be good and can be bad. The more you know about horns the better it can be. But a lot of people pay too much money for something they don't know enough about. Your well known companies are selling adequate instruments and have very good return policies. Private parties on eBay sometimes don't sell you what they think they have. Meaning - they believe they have a $5,000 Conn 8D, but they really only have $1200 Conn 6D. They are not lying on purpose, they just don't know. I have purchased a professional horn from another country through an online advertisement. But, there were lots of questions about how the instrument was played, what style and techniques he used when playing. A background check of through his employer and even listening to a recorded performance of that player on that horn.

If you can play your teachers A800 for a while (like a test drive for a week)and you like it then that might be the horn for you. If so, send me a Private message and I'll give you the info for my aquiantance who is selling a used, but new condition one for almost half the price of your teachers.

John, I am piggy-backing on this string as I haven't received your reply to my earlier direct question about buying a used horn.

Here it is. I played in high school, had a 45 yr. break, and returned in January to join a community band. I love it and want to improve my skills. the other two horn players play Conn 8D an H175 Merker Matic. I am playing a single, no name, piece of junk now and need to decide by Aug. 31 whether to buy a Holton 379 or 179. I was set on a used, significantly bad finish, but professionally "overhauled" H179 for $860 when I discovered a H379 for $700 with a great finish but needing one rotor repair and bell straightening.

I read a post by you that pointed out the "innards" of the 379 allow/promote striking the note accurately and the H179 "innards" enhance tone. I don't know which is the better choice for my skill level which I plan to improve with practice on a nice double horn. I was first chair of four in high school, my strength was rich tone, played the intro of (forgive sp.) "Til Eulenspiegal" cold at concert competition, and made all-region status. With the 45 year break, I don't know if I am intermediate or better. Also, if I am intermediate, how soon will I improve to the point of wanting the 179.

HELP !
KatherineK

KatherineK,
Sorry I missed the earlier direct question. In your situation if you were to pick between those two I would encourage you to pick the H179. You already know how to play. It's like riding a bike, you'll be a little wobbly at first but will get the hang of it quickly.

Down the road you can get the H179 cleaned, buffed, and polished for between $500 and $700. I'm not sure what work needs to be done to the valve rotor of the H379 but if it's a rebuild you're going to want all the valves to match and that's going to be $1K.

The H179 is going to be the better deal down the road.

Regarding buying horn over the internet:

The first horn I bought came from a reputable music store which is where I'd recommend you go if you don't have the experience to know what you're doing or don't have help from an experienced horn player.

Buying a horn over the internet is risky, but less risky if you know exactly what you want and how to spot it. Like John said, a lot of sellers don't have a clue what they're selling, but if you know exactly what you want, what it's worth and can recognize it on line, you can have success with this route.

For example, I know Holton Merkers are pretty darn good horns. I bought two, a rose bronze and a yellow brass, from the internet and am very happy with both and believe they were well worth what I paid for them. I can recognize the Merker in pictures, even when the seller doesn't have a clue what a Merker is. But... I don't know squat about Conns, so I wouldn't DARE buy a Conn over the internet. I'd only buy one of those if I could try it out before I decided to buy it or get help from a horn player who really knows Conns.

Many sellers will give you the option to try the horn for a trial period and return it minus the price of shipping if you don't like it. I once borrowed a Yamaha 667 under those terms & returned it later. (I'm just not a Geyer gal!)

If you don't know exactly what you want, try to find someone who will allow a trial period. If not, then I would try to find a horn locally so you can try it out before you buy it.

Another thing, if you know a skilled horn player who can try out a horn for you, that really helps. You may not have the range to test the full range of an instrument, like a more experienced player does. I've heard of a horn with a bad high A that wouldn't speak no matter who played it. Before I had the range for a high A, I might have bought that horn and never figured out why I couldn't play a high A! (I believe a defect such as this is pretty rare, however.)

Good luck, and please keep us posted. There are actually a lot of very good horns out there. It really won't be that hard to find one.

Valerie Wells
http://bebabe.wordpress.com/
http://www.beforhorn.blogspot.com/

Great advice Valerie.

Only one thing. The little scenario about a duff note, like the high A. Is actually quite common. I would say there are bad notes on 75% of the horn sI look at for students and friends, 75%!.

Thanks for the advice. The horn that my teacher is trying to sell is actually an Atkinson A900. So I believe it's a step up from the A800. However, I do not think that I am going to get it since the schools that I am looking at mainly use Conns and Yamahas.

wow, John, I didn't know that. I've only heard of one that had a bad high A, but I can't say I've play zillions of horns. When I went to the ISH symposium in Denver, I played three octave scales on dozens of horns, none had a bad note... But, of course, a vendor isn't going to bring a defective horn to the symposium!

Valerie Wells
The Balanced Embouchure Method
http://bebabe.wordpress.com/
http://www.beforhorn.blogspot.com/

Val, you bring up a great point - - - Conferences and Shows.

You are correct about them not bringing a duff horn to a show. I've been at conferences where instruments have been pulled off the table when someone talented plays them and makes a comment about something that's not quite right about them. The horns on those tables have received extra special care to be sure they are up to task. Almost every factory horn has something wrong with it. Many professionals I know who purchase news horns immediately send them off to Patterson Horn works or someone else like him to take the instrument apart and put them back together after cleaning, aligning, and sizing all the ports, tubes, etc. (exceptions have been a Shmid, a jacob, and a couple of Bergs).

Just like Valerie says, it is important to let someone else, preferably someone more advanced, to play your possible new horn and put it through it's paces. Most of my students take me with them to try out horns. Top professionals have colleagues listen to them from teh audience and have their colleagues play their possible horn purchases to get feed back. We all have different strengths.

My motto is, "give me a horn and I will find something wrong with it". I shoud probably post a long lecture on why every horn you play is a compromised instrument.

My motto is, "give me a horn and I will find something wrong with it". I shoud probably post a long lecture on why every horn you play is a compromised instrument.

But.... is there really any such thing as a perfect horn?

Valerie Wells
The Balanced Embouchure Method
http://bebabe.wordpress.com/
http://www.beforhorn.blogspot.com/

No. There is no perfect horn.
The best answer is no. Any double horn, Triple horn, compensator horn is a compromised instrument. A single Horn comes closest to a perfect horn and then - - - you can't make a living with just one.

The joys of trying to be a perfect musician on an imperfect instrument. Thankfully we don't have to mess with reeds like oboists. Then we'd really drive ourselves whacko. OH Valerie I have to send you a PM. . .

Waiting for that PM, John!

A single Horn comes closest to a perfect horn and then - - - you can't make a living with just one.

I believe that. On an impulse, I bought a little Reynolds single Bb off Ebay for $200. I love playing it. It's so light & fun! Responds somewhat like a trumpet... especially evenly and easily in the upper register. I've never performed with it, however. It just doesn't have the sound people expect from a horn. I may use it, come this Christmas season, if I get asked to do baroque stuff again.

Valerie Wells
The Balanced Embouchure Method
http://bebabe.wordpress.com/
http://www.beforhorn.blogspot.com/