Over the years there apparently has been a major shift toward beginners using the Bb single instead of the F single, a shift which I think makes perfect sense. Given that, what is the future of the F single?

The only real niche I can think of is if a professional or advanced amateur has some kind of informal gig that involves standing up, where weight becomes an issue. If the horn part isn't too high then a single F would be a great ergonomical choice while still getting that magical tone color. The fact that single Fs are quite inexpensive also means less is at stake if the horn is stolen, misplaced or accidentally dropped.

But if the gig is something where the F horn's timbre isn't too critical, the Bb seems a much better choice. I'm thinking of something along non-classical lines, where the timbral finesse gets washed out by guitars or drums or the DJ tracks, etc....In this case you'd need to play loud and strong, in which case the Bb's extra embouchural security comes in very handy.

Do any of you use single F horns on more than a once-every-couple-years basis? And could you ever justify a hornist owning all three - single F, single Bb, and double?

If you were to be invited to play with the Vienna Phil you would need a single F horn. So there is still a need for them. Yes, the Vienna Horn is quite a bit different than most we see, but it is still a single F Horn.

There are many inexpensive single F horns, yes. But professionals would most likely would use a more expensive single horn.

My single Horn(s) are in C - Bb - A - Ab - G. I don't use F. But I wouldn't critisize any one else for using one.

I agree with your thoughts of using a Bb or similar for a gig which includes guitars, drums, and electronic key boards. The finesse of the F gets lost.

You ask, "could you ever justify a hornist owning all three - single F, single Bb, and double?" Um, is this a trick question? Why limit yourself to three? What about descant horns, alto horns (alto french horns not Eb alto marching horns), Tuben?

Just what is a Vienna horn anyway?

Another thing, I'm amazed that you have single horns in all those keys. I had no idea they were actually being made somewhere. Where did you get yours?

I forgot about the descant horn and triple horn. The only thing I see here is that professionals shouldn't have much trouble playing high notes on the Bb since they are - well, professionals. Now if they were spending a LOT of time above the written high A, it might make sense to use F alto. Seems to me that the tone quality on an F alto would ONLY be good for the very high register, as in above written F or G atop the treble clef. And anyway, if professionals can justify having descant/triple horns, why not advanced amateurs and students? They'd be the ones who have a bit of difficulty in the upper register even with the Bb horn. It almost feels like cheating for the pros to take a shortcut like this...

The reason for choosing single F (regular F) over single Bb is purely for tone quality, unless you're playing notes that don't exist on the Bb. It allows you to hit the trifecta of portability, tone quality, and less money at stake.

Vienna horns are horns the players in the vienna philharmonic play. They are single horns based in F, but yes you can add leadpipe crooks if needed or when allowed. Do a search for images, if you've never seen one you will be intrigued by the valves. They use an old style double-piston valve. You don't see those very often.

You might be surprised what people out there are playing. My single(s)are made by an individual. One of my doubles was modified by Atkinson Brass. There are lots of tools/tricks/cheating accesories that professionals use. Whatever it takes to get the job done.

I would restate your statement about a 'pro should be able to play high on the Bb since they are - well, professionals". That statement is almost contradictory. By stating the pro shoudl be able to play high on a Bb aludes to them using the Bb Horn in place of the F Horn which supports the idea of using a descant. Pros should be able to play almost anything on any horn. As you state the F alto or Eb alto makes sense when playing super high all day. Your lips still need to produce the high notes regardless of what horn you are playing. But specialty crafted horns certainly make playing any note easier. Last Summer I had to play a piece with a high F above the staff. I used my descant for that concert because it felt nice and secure even though I was only up there for a bit, but I also used that descant to play throughout the range of the horn including the bass clef notes. There are quite a few 1st and 3rd players using descant horns as their regular main instrument, not because they are playing high above the staff.

You mention "tone quality on the F alto would ONLY be good for the very high register". What 'tone quality' are you talking about? Tone quality should be the same in all ranges regardless of what instrument you are playing. How is the f-alto tone quality different than the Bb or F tone quality? I have no problem playing my f-alto in the lower treble clef and bass clef region and I think it has a wonderful tone quality. Some f-altos might sound weak, thin, and trumpety up in the high register and some people accept that tone quality - I don't. I don't think the audience should know by listening which horn you are playing. It should always sound like a french horn.

I notice most jazz horn players use descants in Bb/f-alto and Bb/Eb-alto. The Bb/Eb certainly helps when working with trumpets (Bb) and saxes (Bb and Eb). I don' tthink is so much because of the 'tone quality' but more because of the harmonic resonance of the horn being in the same keys. Also you don't have to transpsoe if you are reading along with the Eb alto sax, or Bb tenor sax palyers.

There is no reason advanced amateurs can't use a descant or triple. I know lots of amateurs using triples. However, I do not suggest an amateur purchase a descant because they find the high range difficult. You still need to learn to play properly. Diffculty in the high register is still going to be difficult on the descant because your body still needs to make the same note. The high C above the staff is still 1046 cycles per second.

Cheating - - where do you draw the line regarding cheating? Is a carpenter using power tools cheating because he's not using hand saws and hand drills? Is a surgeon cheating when he uses arthrocopic surgery to minimze trauma to the surgical area? Is a neuro surgeon cheating when he uses an MRI instead of old fashion X-ray? These are merely tools to help make the experience better for everyone involved.

If you want consider there items as cheating remember, we didn't use to have ANY valves on our horns. The use of a valved horn is cheating. Think about the arguments and frustration that went on at the Conservatory of Paris when the school was forcing the Horn teachers to teach valved horn and stop teaching hand horn. Think about the music that is transposed/transcribed for you today. That's cheating because before we had to transpose from whatever key the piece was in.

The horn player should pick whatever intrument they enjoy playing. Sometimes I pick a particualr instrument because I think it sounds best for what I'm playing. If I'm doing three shows of Les Mis in one day I'm going to play my single C. Why? Because it's lighter and has less resistance which will allows me to last longer thereby resulting in three good performances for the audience, as opposed to a really good morning show, a pretty good afternoon show, and a 'passable' eveing show.

For begining learners I prefer the Bb single (as you mention earlier many people are moving to the single Bb as a starter). But that doesn't mean I wouldn't move someone who is doing good on a Bb over to a F single. I totally agree with you that the F has the overall superior traditional lovely wonderful horn sound - - and yes it's light, and often less expensive than a double or other horn.

This is the first year I am playing horn, and I actually use a double horn.